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Biagio
ParticipantWhen you write “lever harp” I assume you mean simply that it is not at concert (pedal) tension. Morely and Clark are the best known vintage harps of 40+ years ago – those were from the 1920s and earlier. It was not until the 1970s or so that actual levers were coming into use; before that they used blades.
That restoration I mentioned was a Clark model A. I doubt that it would have been salvageable if the strings had not broken fairly soon after going into storage. That saved the body and particularly the sound board from too much damage.
Clarks were in fact designed to be inexpensive and some later models had nylon strings – in fact, it was Melville Clark who approached Dupont to come up with a formula. Later on L&H subcontracted for them for several years.
So in this scenario you might consider a Clark as your hypothetical; but older than 40 years. Otherwise perhaps a Bolles, Witcher or early Caswell. Do some research into harp makes and models of the 1970s.
Nylon or gut, it does not make much difference in this scenario; I’ve seen nylon strings break after only a few months if left unplayed. As to the neck…
if it is going to go typically small unseen cracks begin to develop internally then suddenly – POW!Biagio
ParticipantAssuming that the harp is of 4 octaves or more and is stored:
– at ambient temperature and humidity
– with the strings at playing tension
– the sound board is wood (not a laminate or carbon fiber)it is likely that at the least some strings will be broken, and very possible that the neck will be too. You need to be more specific before we can give you a better answer.
I restored an 80 year old harp that had been stored in metal storage bin for over ten years – all of the (gut) strings had to be replaced, the neck was bent at the pillar joint and cracked at the knee. That storage facility was outside San Diego (ouch!).
So yeah it can be done.
–Biagio
ParticipantI do love those bronze core strings that Dusty uses much better than steel core. One needs greater mass in the bass to keep the strings to a manageable length and bronze gives a lot more “oomph” than steel. It is, however more prone to breakage so for higher tension steel may be the only alternative.
When discussing “tone” in different string types (“gut is more mellow than nylon” e.g.) what we are really talking about is the relative strength and location of partials, aka timbre. In general, softer material provides a more mellow sound and shorter sustain than harder ones due to the partials they produce.
Perhaps we want a lute-like timbre but as harp players/makers we also have to be concerned with relative size (no really FAT strings) vibrating length and tensile strength. Nylon core fibre bed nylon wrap should come close to that achieved entirely with silk at much lower cost.
Just my two cents.
Biagio
ParticipantPretty cool, I did not know anyone was making these in Harp lengths. Notice that for many strings in the range they should be wrapped.. and that’s not cheap!
Before committing that money personally I would first try nylon core fiber bed nylon wrapped strings (Vermont Strings supplies those) for a good deal less $$.
“Fiber” is also called “artificial silk” by some; if memory serves the stuff is Dacron. Some older harps have been restrung with fiber and metal wrap for a smoother transition from gut in the higher ranges.
Whether natural silk or “fiber” be aware that they continue to stretch without a solid core material. If you get some please let us know what you think!
Happy harping,
BiagioBiagio
ParticipantAny experienced luthier could make one for you if you can’t find it but frankly I’d ask them to never mind about the folding bit, just make it flat permanently. Once you have folded it you have taken the tension off and it will take several days to bring it back up and hold pitch..
Biagio
ParticipantThe spacing should be more of an issue if it is different, assuming that your teacher has taught you the concept of an “anchor finger.” If not…the idea is that your hands have been trained to accurate placement after placing the first finger so you really only look at that first string. As Charles wrote, finding that first string visually should come quickly.
Best wishes,
BiagioBiagio
ParticipantI’m not familiar with this maker but a perusal of the website leads me to think that he knows what he is doing. Here’s the thing: there are a number of small shops making good harps that are not on the radar like the larger shops’ harps are so in absence of reviews look at the construction and warranty.
In general a small 3 to 3.5 octave harp is not difficult to make and with a Finnish laminate sound board they are also quite inexpensive in terms of materials and labor; the greatest cost to the maker are the levers. For instance, I made a 22 double strung in cherry with Truitt levers on Cs and Fs which cost me about $300 – sold it for $700. Half of the materials cost was the Truitts.
So I guess I’ve not directly answered your question but if the warranty is acceptable this might be worth getting.
Biagio
ParticipantSure you can but obviously you can’t use some chord fingerings that you would on a larger one (1-5-8 e.g.). Or play the chord above the melody. For the accompaniment use rather just one or two. I’d suggest look into Harper Tasche’s books specifically written for small harps.
Biagio
ParticipantThe Dustys use mahogany for the sound board treble and high mid which is probably the reason for the sustain you hear up there. You could choose gut lower down if you wish for a somewhat mellower tone.
As far as I know, Dusty is the only maker who uses bronze core nylon wrap in the bass. I put those on my own 36 and love them, after hearing the DH36.
Biagio
Biagio
ParticipantDunno about a “major” tension change but for most harps tension will increase from treble to bass. The thing to look for however is a smooth feeling across the entire range and that is usually seen in the ratio of tension to length. Some harps are deliberately designed to have a big jump in the bass, such as those intended for rapid Celtic style playing, where the bass is not meant for arpeggios or complex chords.
My own preference is for a smooth upwardly sloping tension curve since my harps tend to the medium-high folk tension end and a sudden jump can cause hand injury. My Niohogrr for instance has a very smooth tension curve; the lowest octave strings are metal core nylon wound (bronze or steel core).
As to tone – I just hate metal wound bass strings and will go to some lengths to avoid them – bronze core nylon wound as in the Dusty FHs or fiber core silver wound in some older restored Erards. The latter are expensive and I don’t feel that it buys much unless the higher registers are gut.
Biagio
Biagio
ParticipantYes, some harp stuff is confusing and some makers have their own terminology. It frustrated me too at first! To address some of your questions though….
If the harp is assumed to be a pedal instrument or played like one it will be tuned open to Cb or Eb and octaves are assumed to start and end with Eb, counted down from top to bottom. That makes perfect sense for the instrument’s intended market but is not any sort of standard for any other type of instrument.
If the harp is tuned open to C as with most lever harps there is a standard which is used for many other instruments where C4=middle C. Once I got my head around that – no big deal. But….
An additional irritant is that they do not usually tell you anything else except the composition – how does one know what the tension will be across the range except in general terms and by what the maker says (high, medium, light or other) and are there any “bumps”? You will not know unless you actually sit down with it or they publish a graph or graphs. Which no one I know does (except Chris Caswell but he has passed).
People generalize that gut strungs are high tension and nylon strung medium to low but that is just a result of common practice among harp makers. You can have a high tension nylon strung harp if you wish, e.g.
It’s not that makers are duplicitous but more that they design for a specific market and signature sound; they do not want to get down in the weeds about string theory. Additionally unscrupulous people have been known to copy the design and sell the result as the original. Typically such copies are junk, so many makers consider their string designs proprietary.
Ain’t life great?
BiagioMarch 17, 2021 at 4:58 pm in reply to: 2nd harp choices for easier transport than your big floor harp #255501Biagio
ParticipantHmm…excellent question. My favorite “small harp” would not be very useful to you since it was purposely designed as a smallish “floor” harp. It stands 48″ tall (26 strings C to g) and those comparatively long bass strings provide the resonance not often heard on a 3 1/2 octave harp.
I don’t know of anyone else who makes anything like this, but the closest in tone I’ve found is the Raphael 26 by Harps of Lorien. That has a truly gorgeous sound as does the somewhat larger Lorien 30. These have Finnish laminate sound boards (like the Dusty Ravennas). Both come with Truitt levers on Cs and Fs; additional levers at $24 each. They are also available as unfinished “kits”. Both the finished and “kits” are sold at very attractive prices.
The Ravennas would also be good economical choices but given the cost comparison to the HoLs (about the same) and with Lovelands on the Dustys I would go with the Harps of Lorien.
Biagio
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This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by
Biagio.
Biagio
ParticipantI agree Catherine wrt lead sheets and definitely on the desirability of lessons.
But Jennifer, let’s be clear about the difference between sight reading and just understanding a score; not the same thing. If you can understand scales you can pluck out the tune and play thence forward by ear.
One of the best players I know is dyslexic does exactly that.
Renting a Ravenna 34 would be a wise choice.
Have fun!
BiagioBiagio
ParticipantIt’s a good bet that at least one string will break within the first year or two so it would seem a good idea to know ow to put on a new one, at least. Fortunately most “beginner” books show how to do this.
Just as a matter of common sense though: if you had never driven a car before and had just bought one, would it not be a good idea to at least skim through the owner’s manual to understand what periodic maintenance is suggested?
Same with a harp. I’ve lost count of how many questions crop up by people who just dived in but neglected the basics – often on pretty trivial “issues.” And/or find that they do not have to tools or knowledge to fix them.
Look, I’m not suggesting that a beginner become a technician but it is really doing them a disservice to just wave away the issues that any harper will face with their instrument.
Biagio
Biagio
Participant@Clare The principles for lever regulation are the same for any lever on the market (and for the old fashioned blades too). Specifically: shortening the vibrating string raises the pitch and of course vice versa.
In theory to raise the pitch 1/2 step (a sharp) that means between 0.055 and 0.058 times the vibrating length. The exact amount will depend on factors such as the angle from board to bridge pin but that is not something one needs to worry about with an accurate tuning meter. Which should be one of the auxiliary items one buys along with tuning wrench, spare strings, etc.
That is not very much if you think about it and the maker will have already placed the levers and regulated them when new. Because harp necks and sound boards continue to flex over time and strings expand and contract with temperature periodic regulation is necessary – how often depends on the individual harp but the amount of adjustment is quite small (unless the harp is old and has sat around unplayed).
What tool(s) one needs depends on the specific lever design. For the Lovelands and Camacs you can find them listed here at Dusty Strings:
https://manufacturing.dustystrings.com/harps/accessories-hardware/tools-maintenance/a-la-carte-tools
For Truitts you need only a size T-4 Torx driver (one of many reasons I prefer this lever type) and the appropriate bride pin driver(s). Ask the maker or seller about that. Since use Dusty pins all the same size that is easy although I find a 4mm socket head works just as well as what they sell, if not better.
[Interlude: There are two books I highly recommend for any harper as well: “The Harper’s Manual” by Laurie Riley and “Trouble Shooting Your Lever Harp” by David Kolacny. Both are widely available and not expensive.]
[Note to Wil: Bronze core nylon wrap bass strings are only on the FH series, the Ravenna and Crescendo use steel core bronze wrap. This is due to the physical limitations imposed by vibrating length and desired tension. Dusty likes the rich color and relatively long sustain in the FH bass (so do I) but that’s a topic for a different thread.]
Blessings all,
Biagio -
This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by
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