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Leaving aside the question of vegan ethics I’ll just opine of the string material:
First density: higher density means higher tension at a given length diameter and frequency. From lowest to highest: Tynex nylon, gut, fluorocarbon. I often use the latter two instead of wound nylon/nylon in the mid range to maintain a consistent diameter progression.
Second tone: this relates to both elasticity and hardness. Gut and fluorocarbon are more elastic than nylon, FC being the most, and gut is softer than either of the other two. The next result is somewhat more “mellow” tone for gut, while FC is sort of in the middle.
Finally cost: gut is the most expensive and since it is often at a high tension there may be more frequent need to change the strings.
A great deal depends on the player’s technique, obviously as to how it sounds and responds. I doubt that many if any harp designers worry about their customers’ eating habits, but choose the design to achieve a “signature” sound. If a player wishes to substitute nylon for gut though it can be done – provided that a competent technician recommends the appropriate diameter.
Hi Fiona,
I’m delighted that the Ravenna has worked out for you; it’s an excellent harp at the price even before the water damage which seems mostly cosmetic. So congratulations!
I’m afraid that sellers of these Pakistan-made harps have a reputation for recalcitrance when it comes to returns but if you beat them up enough eventually they cough it up.
Good luck and best wishes,
BiagioCatching up again….for the more lightly strung lever harps, as compared to concert ones, these days the sleek look is “in” and many builders rely only on the adhesive. This will often be something like Titebond(R) or slow cure epoxy such as T-88. If you look inside though you will see that the internal glue ribs are quite thick and wide. Sometimes the internal seam will also be strengthened with fiber glass or even carbon fiber.
Personally I think that unless one has lots and lots of clamps and lots of experience, relying on glue alone is tempting a sprung board. I’d advocate 1/2″ pneumatic staples covered by a thin rub rail for aesthetics in such cases.
As for veneer: if the harps is intended to be played and not just looked at contact cement is worse than useless. Builders who apply a veneer use epoxy and the veneer is “clamped” with a vacuum press.
I don’t know if you, John, have looked at Rick Kemper’s excellent documentary on building the lever harp, but if not please do so. See http://www.sligoharps.com/
Sorry I have not been following this closely…plaudits to John for taking this on!
Biagio
Fiona, assuming you keep this harp at least for now, here’s a tip for slipping pegs. Use a thin metal shim – even heavy duty aluminum foil will work, though brass is preferable. It’s not uncommon to see that done on older harps.
If they are the “push type” that means the holes/pins are tapered. Perhaps when the holes were reamed it was not precise, or the pegs were not perfectly machined. It happens.
Biagio
Wil Weten has expanded extremely well on the problems that I only briefly described, so well done Wil. Fiona could take a chance on the used Ravenna perhaps and it is worth taking a look anyway. However I have to say that unless someone has a lot of experience understanding how harps are actually made, buying a used one with obvious issues is probably a recipe for disappointment, or at least a lot of work.
Here two examples:
Someone brought me a small double strung on which the external string rib had splintered in several places, causing it to buzz. The choices were to replace the rib completely or fill the splintered places with high strength epoxy. Either easy in description but both would take a number of hours in labor, around $500 worth. Since the harp came to the owner for free she had me do the repair but if she had seen it for sale I’d have advised her to take a pass.
I had an opportunity to acquire a Clark model A for $500 with cracked neck, broken off knee block and a tilted over Neck-pillar joint. Not terribly difficult to fix but to do so also meant making and replacing several of the shaping blades, which are no longer commercially available. Well, I did and sold the thing for a decent amount but honestly, it would not have been worth the effort. I was just bored.
In sum, Fiona, when you go to look at the Ravenna at Morley examine it very carefully, especially to see if any of the SB laminations have separated. That low C may buzz against the pillar but it may also be buzzing because of lam separation. If that is the case you will have real problems down the road.
I looked at the harp Fiona on Morley’s website and also read their description. I have some serious concerns which you might discuss with them. As Wil Weten said, that is a well regarded, reputable shop so I would trust what they tell you. My concerns are:
-The harp is listed as being “for repair or spare parts”. “Repair” I wold take to mean either a) replacing the sound board or b) removing the strings then adding a thin wood stiffener from the inside at the bass end. Item ‘A’ is expensive, Item ‘B’ not so much but would compromise the tone somewhat. How much I can’t say of course but it should in any case be done by an experienced harp technician.
-Given the above I think there is room for negotiation about the price and what they would charge for making the repair.
One option I always suggest when someone has a price constraint: consider one of Musicmakers kits, in this case the Jolie or Ballad:
https://www.harpkit.com/diy-harp-kits
They are easy to put together and in your price range,although levers are not included and I do not know what shipping and VAT would cost. Maybe ask your son to take a look at the assembly instructions?
FYI levers are actually easy to add, some easier than others. Rees levers, available from Robinson’s Harp shop cost $11 US the last time I checked.
Biagio
I hope that things work out for you Fiona. I cannot speak to the Ravenna at Morley of course but here are a few observations:
The Ravennas have a high quality Finnish ply sound board so the water damage would concern me, if any of the plies have separated.
Speaking as an individual (retired) harp maker I can say that just the strings levers and hardware alone for a 34-36 cost about $800-$1000 US retail; less for a full time professional of course. The moral here is that if anyone offers one for less there is probably something wrong with it.
Please do consider my suggestion about the Ravenna 26, therefore.
Best wishes,
Biagio“Gear4music” is not the makers name and while I cannot tell from the 36 picture who actually made it I can say with some certainty that the smaller ones are made in Pakistan. The levers on the 36 certainly look like those on other “Paki harps.” These are notoriously poorly made and it has been a common practice lately to market them through a dealer.
Sorry to give you this bad news. You might possibly struggle with the thing by reducing the tension with smaller diameter strings but frankly I would send the thing back for a refund – if you can get it,. Depends on the warranty.
Honestly, I think that the Dusty Ravenna 34 is the best on the market in terms of price:performance so I guess no help there. A smaller harp might suit your budget better, such as the Ravenna 26. That would be perfectly fine for learning harp technique. It will take some time to learn that anyway, so you might consider finding a harp teacher who would rent a harp to you – and also get you started learning good technique.
Good luck!
BiagioI have not been following this closely but wrt eyelets: Robinson’s sells brass plated extra large steel eyelets. Those are what I use for a wire strung:
Balfour buddy I have been out of circulation for a while so the thread had gone quite a long way before I caught up. It seems though that you, Charles, and Carl pretty much covered anything I could say. But for what it’s worth I’d just start from the beginning i.e. try to save the box/frame, then think long and hard before committing the time and $$ to any sort of restoration. Which he seems to be doing so “bravo and good luck”!
Biagio
Well here’s one that I know: Adio Querida. It is in a harmonic minor key and I’ve seen the score published somewhere, though you will have to search for it. If you want to try playing by ear it is fairly simple: tune to C major and preset G#. Here is a Youtube of it by “Flamenco Sepharad”:
Biagio
Yep, here you are (phosphor bronze):
A6-E6 .018
D6-A5 .020
G5-D5 .022
C5-E4 .025
D4-A3 .028
G3-E3 .032
D5-C3 .035Looks like the NPJ has been repaired using just a metal plate; I’m not sure how strong that would be. The total tension on that harp is 815 lbs. (370 Kg).
Biagio
As long as the wood is hard enough such that the grommets do not pull out, use what you have available. Most harp makers usually have hard maple in the shop so I guess that’s why.
Here’s a trick though: put a tiny dab of “crazy glue” on the SB before inserting the grommet, but be sure it does not get into the grommet shank. If it does though, or spreads around too much, you can clean it up with nail polish remover.
Hi Molly,
It would probably be both cheaper and easier to laminate two 1/2″ pieces of hardwood to an inner core of 1/2″ Baltic birch ply. For that matter you could build the entire neck-pillar assembly that way, as one piece and so not worry about the NP joint. The Waldorf does not have much lateral tension force; at least not enough to make “leaning over” a worry. If you do worry about that make the RH side from 1/4″ hardwood, the core from 1/2″ ply and the LH from 3/4″ hardwood.
I would suggest that you (or anyone) read Rick’s discussion “Structural Analysis” for more insight on the stresses that a harp will experience. As for adhesives, a yellow glue such as Tightbond will be fine provided that the lams are perfectly flat and tightly held together while it cures.
Personally I would use a solid knee block since that would be easiest to make with what I have (wood and tools). If you laminate one though be sure not to just rely on glue: use dowels or cabinet wood screws as well. It is embarrassing if the knee block pops off LOL.
When I laminate a neck-pillar assembly I hold the pieces in place while positioning with small finish nails and use some way of applying pressure across it. For something like the Waldorf a bunch of heavy weights (such as stage weights or even cinder blocks) will work. For a larger harp I will make a bunch of clamps out of 2x4s and carriage bolts. The important thing is to force the glue into the lams all along the assembly (no gaps).
Have fun!
BiagioPersonally I prefer phosphor bronze over yellow brass although the latter is preferred by die-hard purists. The reasons I like bronze are 1) is is somewhat easier to find and 2) not quite as brittle ( it may be necessary to anneal the two ends of yellow brass if the string is near it’s breaking point). Sometimes however red brass may be preferable in the lower octaves. A string band designer such as Robinson’s will know if that is needed/desirable.
There are probably tutorials about using ball ends for steel guitar strings, so you might try searching on that. A problem with those for harp strings is that some wires for harps are thicker which makes winding them on a royal pain. When I have done so, however, I used two needle nosed pliers and placed a nylon bushing followed by a leather washer between the ball end and sound board.
There are ball end winding machines out there but they are expensive and some are too small for the larger strings. All told I find Z-toggles much easier and less prone to kinking the string. Here is guidance from David Kortier: http://www.kortier.com/subpages/toggles.htm
Biagio
