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Biagio
ParticipantCarl, I do not for a minute doubt your observations but just for the benefit of readers….
There are a lot of ways to deal with stresses, some of which may be visible and some not (speaking at the moment of lever harps). For instance:
-I can think of at least five effective ways to make the neck-pillar joint, one of which does indeed use dowels. [ The issue in that case is where they are placed, how long they are, how many, and the diameter. Two 3/8″ diameter dowels 2″ long and centered (I’ve seen some like that) – that’s guaranteed to fail within a few years.]
-Fastening the SB – it seems to be all the rage these days to leave off hardware and rub rails, just relying on adhesive. Bad idea in my opinion but if one insists on the “streamlined” look there are ways to reinforce from inside, e.g. carbon fiber tape, extra wide and beveled glue strips.
-Neck-body A couple of well known makers forego the knee block, instead inserting the full neck width as a big fat tenon into an internal block from the front. In this they are using a design from the 16th century. Works just fine if you like the way it looks.
No matter what you do wood will continue to flex and distort under pressure over time, so no harp will last forever. Maybe it could benefit from some touching up: modern levers on those Troubs for instance, lower tension strings on an old Clark. But it is worth emphasizing the it is up to the owner to maintain the harp, no matter how conscientious the maker.
Biagio
ParticipantOne point perhaps being that most often one cannot see how a harp is constructed until it begins to fall apart. This is also a good argument for the player to understand something about harp construction, since some things (like the missing knee block) are visible.
Even very experienced professional players may not understand these things. One such wanted me to make her a double strung to her specifications – which after seeing them I refused to do. Nicely, but I did not wish to waste my time on something I knew would blow up after a few years: neck and pillar to be black walnut 1 inch thick not reinforced, no screws or staples holding down the SB, no inner braces and did I mention that the total tension would have been close to a ton. Yikes!
Back to the original topic: assuming the maker knows what he or she is doing and the harp is taken care of properly then 20-30 years is a reasonable estimate; but that can vary widely depending on many factors. There are excellent harps still being played that are 50 years or older.
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Biagio
ParticipantCharles has given the exact derivation (yay Charles) which would result in a percentage shortening of 5.613%..but as a practical matter, if mounting levers I just estimate the sharp point as 0.056xmeasured length. Test and adjust as needed. Published lengths never match the actual ones for one thing and it is easy to see how even one millimeter off could make a huge difference as one approaches the higher notes.
Biagio
ParticipantHi Molly,
I should have mentioned this wrt Zither tuning pegs….they tighten clockwise but since they are on the left hand side of the harp you would have to turn them counter clockwise with the bridge pins placed as they are for through pegs. So if you do not want to change the pin positions drill the peg holes fairly deep and mount the pegs about 1 inch deep. That way when you come to string and tune you can turn them counterclockwise.
This is discussed in Folk Harp Design and Construction, available from Musicmakers. Of course if you prefer tapered through pegs, no problem, just buy a #4 reamer from Robinson’s Harp Shop or elsewhere. It doesn’t cost much, but does take some elbow grease.
Cheers,
BiagioBiagio
ParticipantI did not look that closely Charles, though I do note that an F string is broken.
Biagio
ParticipantThat is one of the Paskistani made things but they go by several “names” as the construction is farmed out to several who then put a “name” on it. Sorry I can’t tell you more since I don’t consider them much. As to quality, some are OK and others not.
Biagio
Biagio
ParticipantHi Molly,
I got to thinking about the tools you would need for this and although I suggested a band saw you could get along just fine with a GOOD jigsaw and a set if various blades- I love the Bosche model JS470E. A bit more elbow grease than a band saw but you could also use that to cut the string access holes.
A table top drill press would be a good idea but with careful attention to accuracy a GOOD power hand drill would be OK. My personal favorite is the Dewalt 18 volt XRP – the variable clutch is especially useful.
Then just a couple of sanders, one a finishing and perhaps a good belt sander, although you can rent those as well as a router. You can do without the latter.
Lots of clamps of course but for the Waldorf not too many since the SB is also screwed down, so you could use surgical tubing instead for the glue up.
Jerry Brown’s Folk Harp Design and Construction that Talfryn mentioned has lots of useful information.
If you decide at some point to tackle a larger harp the tool investment escalates LOL: table saw, jointer-planer, compressor and stapler etc.
I think you are wise to start out with the Waldorf to get your hand in with a minimal outlay.
Have fun!
BiagioBiagio
ParticipantGood for you Molly!
Rick’s Waldorf design is both easier to build and sounds better than the Musicmakers Shepherd. However…All due respect to my friend Rick the Waldorf was designed for kids in a supervised class, and he included elements that, while necessary for larger harps are not needed for one this size. So I suggest simplifying it a little as follows:
1) Use zither pegs rather than tapered pegs – so no need for a #4 reamer.
2) If you make the neck and pillar from two pieces of 3/4″ stock laminated together you can ignore his comments on reinforcing splines (and save the cost of a table saw and dadoe set).
3) You really do not need a tapered string rib on this one (although you would for a larger harp). A strip of the 3mm Finish birch ply used for the sound board will be adequate, or just get a 1/8″ strip of maple. but DO use Finnish birch ply and not a cheaper alternative. The only purpose for the rib here is to give enough thickness for the string grommets so they do not stick through and pull out.
You will find that good 16″-18″ band saw is both more versatile than a good table saw and costs less. You can always rent a table saw when you need one, ditto router and sanders.
At this stage in your creative journey I don’t think it’s worth shelling out a lot of money for a full set of levers. You can play just about every music written for the small harp in just C of G keys.
Rick is a wonderful guy and if you ever want to try a larger one he also will supply you with a curved back shell and a spruce or cedar sound board. I have used his curved shells on two of mine and modified the Musimakers’ Cheyenne kit to take a solid spruce SB from him. In all modesty, that cost half of what a Dusty FH36 would (fully levered) and sounds better IMHO. If that ever appeals to you let me know and I will tell you how I modified the kit (including the string band selection).
Have fun but be warned: harp making is addictive!
Biagio
Biagio
ParticipantAs far as I know all nylon harp strings are Tynex by Dow Corning; some brands may be polished and/or pre-stretched but it’s all the same material as far as I know. As to the gauge…variations in diameter among different harp makers for a given frequency are strictly a matter of the particular maker’s choice. Larger diameters will have greater tension but the same breaking point as smaller ones.
Biagio
ParticipantHi Saul,
I’m not sure what you mean by “Alliance nylon strings” since I mentally think “Savarez Alliance”. These are fluorocarbon, hence not what I think of as nylon. Would you please clarify?
Thanks!
BiagioBiagio
ParticipantThere are many considerations that go into choosing any harp but for what it’s worth, here’s my unsolicited comment…
The 26 string Raphael by Harps of Lorien is the hands down preferred therapy harp of Laurie Riley. It is rather tall for a 26 but given your frame perhaps that would not be an issue. With Truitt levers on Cs and Fs the cost is $1850; additional levers are $24 each.
They offer a discount to students enrolled in an accredited music therapy program.
Laurie is one of the early pioneers in harp therapy.
Biagio
Biagio
ParticipantHaha yeah…it is surprising how a good story may be a trifle “off” to an informed reader, even if the work is fantasy. For instance I love J.R.R. Tolkien but Thorin’s and Elrond’s “golden harps” always make me smile at the wrong place. I mean, how much would those things have weighed???
I just tell myself that Tolkien was thinking gold strings, so that’s OK, LOL.
Biagio
ParticipantI don’t know if anyone has the original string specs and many have certainly looked for them. Judging from the harmonic curve though, and some best guesses by Mark Bolles and others, those are where %tensile strength is pushing up against an acceptable limit (C3 B2 and A2). As someone mentioned earlier though, that can also start a cascade.
In any case, if this harp has been in an attic for some decades, such as are not broken will be as soon as someone tries to tune them!
The blades were stainless steel but their shank slides into a sleeve. Any oxidation there will cause it to stick. I think there were three or four that I had to make replacements for. Bridge pins were also steel and many were also stuck. Most of the tuning pegs had oxidized and were useless.
Biagio
ParticipantIt seems that you have a good idea at this point. Just one further comment that may be helpful….
I mentioned the Clark model A and without specifying that particular harp here are some details:
Clark based his design on an “Irish style harp” that he had seen while on a trip to study pedal harps in the UK – likely a Morely. The early model As were gut strung, with a range from first octave G to E, 31 strings with the lower (bass) being brass or bronze wound. Later production had nylon strings in the upper registers.
Clarks are still being played and you can find pictures all over the internet. Most of those still extant will have the original range but lower tension nylon strings.
Two of those that I have seen had the blades replaced with modern levers. Purists would consider that a sacrilege LOL, but in fact I toyed with the idea. Decided not to as that would have lowered the resale value. But if I had decided to keep it for my own I might have done so.
Biagio
Biagio
ParticipantProbably 31 or 34 strings. There were and are many individual harp makers in Wales, Britain and Scotland so I’m thinking that your Novel harp does not need to be by any well known maker? John Weston Thomas did a lot to revive harp making in Wales, Teifi Harps come from that tradition.
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