Classical guitarist playing the harp

[lam-wk]

This is my first post to this column. I am an accomplished classical guitarist of 30+ years experience.I have just started playing the harp for 2-3 months. I have two harps: a Lyon and Healy 34 strings lever Ogden Harp and a Salvi Diana 47 strings Grand Concert Harp now and I immediately fall in love with these instruments. However, as a classical guitarist, I use my right hand fingernails to plug the strings but when I play these two harps, it just don’t fit into the Salzedo technique that my teacher taught. It is impossible to play the classical harp with nail is what I have heard. I cut my nails and it seems okay all suddenly with the harp. However, when I play with my nails, the harps sounds more like a guitar (I have attached some clips of my playing). I still wish to play both the guitar and the harp.

My question is: are there any work around for classical guitarist to play the harp? Are there other classical techniques that seems okay to play with nails?

Thanks in advance!

[diana-day]

Your playing is lovely. So many people have thought of playing both guitar and harp and are frustrated by the nails or no nails question. Have you thought about going about it from the other direction? In other words, looking into playing the guitar with the pads of your fingers instead of using nails? I know the use of the nails was not always popular in classical guitar, with great players such as Fernando Sol playing with the pads of his fingers. If you did that you could easily play both instruments, though you might not care for the sound of the guitar played without nails!

[Sherri Matthew]

Hi,
Not sure if you would be interested in going this route, but I play wire-strung harp, which is traditionally played with the nails. There’s some info here: http://www.wirestrungharp.com/

[lam-wk]

Dear Diana, thank you for your suggestion. Playing without nails seems to be a great idea for classical period and romantic period repertoire. I found it challenging for more comtemporily piece for the technical requirements and the sound. But I can try.

Dear Sherri, wire strung harp is beautiful and I always want to try. There is not many people playing it in my locality.

On the other hand, are there no people really play a pedal harp with nails?

[lam-wk]

I have just tried playing the guitar without nails and after a few hours of struggle, I managed to play some Sors or the classical period as it only requires to use thumb, index and middle fingers for virtually most classical period. For contemporary pieces, it is almost impossible to play the very fast passages involving the ring finger. That also does not sound very much like a classical guitar. I looked at the wire strung harps and it seems it need both hands with nails while I have only right hand nails. I already brought 2 harps in my first three months of playing and I don’t mind buying the third if it do solve the problem. Do I have other options before I buy a wire strung harp or a paraguan harp?

[tony-morosco]

I’m not particularly good at guitar, but I use finger picks to play guitar when I need that finger nail sound so I can play harp without nails.

Do people play harp with nails? Sure. Many people who play Latin harp use their nails. Some folks who play on nylon strings use their nails. And of course nails are the perefered way most wire strung harpists play as it is the traditional way.

However, just as you noticed that pads may work on guitar in some genres but not all, same with using nails on harp. You can do it, but with many genres it doesn’t sound right, and will hinder what you can do if you are playing gut strings on a concert harp.

Compromise is in everything. If you really want to persue the concert harp you will probably find at some point you will cut your nails.

[Tacye]

How long do you need your nails for the guitar? I managed to get mine long enough (just) for the wire strung harp while still playing pedal by cutting them at a slant – I play my pedal harp fingers down and thumb up so had the inside corners short and the outside a bit longer. I did cut them all offagain for performing on the pedal harp though!

[lam-wk]

Dear Tony, compromised is everything and now I understand. Yes, I did a lot of compromise in many other things in life. I am interested in Latin harps and may be get one some day.

Dear Tracye, It took two weeks to grow and shape my nails to suitable shape and another two weeks to reach a small peak in playing with newly grown nails. I am most interested in how to get the compromised shape and length to make playing more efficiency. There seems to be a sweat point in playing both. I’ll continue experimenting.

Thank you for all the wise words! I feel very happy with my first post in this community and I hope to learn more from all of you.

[Sherri Matthew]

Hi Tacye,
Didn’t know you played wire harp too! Who built your harp and how many strings? Sorry to hear you had to cut off all your nails. 🙁 I don’t play pedal myself, but I’m aware the hand position and technique is a lot different. Do you find it takes some time to readjust going from one instrument to another? What do you play on your wire harp?

[Tacye]

Sherri, I don’t play wire harp now – I played with one a while back. Restrung a Stoney End Eve with brass and did enough playing to feel I had some idea how it worked but soon reverted to gut only as I like it better.

[Sherri Matthew]

That’s pretty neat that you were able to restring a Stoney End with brass… I would have been afraid to try that out of concern for damaging the instrument. Did you find that the sound board bellied quite a bit when you put the wire strings on?

[Tacye]

I asked Stoney End by how much I could increase the tension and was told lots, so I did! It bellied up a bit, but I restrung it five years ago and it still seems fine and being babysat by a friend.

[Alison]

If you are a guitarist I suspect you might have a tendency to pick at the strings without placing first, like the guy in this video, typical of many self taught players. Watch other harpists on youtube and how they properly articulate the fingers at the knuckles so that they follow thro’ and fold into the palm (NOT knuckles to ceiling), then try to see how they place fingers ahead of playing (like reverse orange peel, I always think); this is really important for anything beyond basic repertoire and I drill my pupils into this habit, no other instrument requires such thinking and placing ahead.

[lam-wk]

Thank you for your great tips, Alison! My teacher made the same comment about me and now I am working on many exercises to correct it and connect it. I also need to correct the joint movement and use more of the Flexor Digitorum muscles to move the knuckles rather than the Flexor Digitorum Superficialis to move the proximal interphalangeal joints as the YouTube video shows. Muscle memories are difficult to correct and I am trying hard!

The YouTube embedded video is lovely and I guess it is another style of playing that originate historically from Spanish culture (where the guitar is the “basic” instrument they love so much) and evolve to this harp style in Latin American harp, isn’t it? LAM

[randal]

I’m a life-long guitarist–about 40 years–studying primarily flamenco–nails are absolutely essential. Although I always wanted to play the harp, I resisted it, until just last year–because of the technique conflict. I suffered for decades with the yearning to play the harp, but knew I couldn’t do both. I started playing hammered dulcimer long ago to assuage my compulsion for harp. Eventually, my interests in harp increasingly grew toward wire-strung, so I finally began last year with wire–which enabled me to do both to almost reasonable degree. But I also play fretless instruments–oud, violin, doublebass–on which any nail (LH for oud and vn; RH for DB) is simply problematic at best. Eventually, I’ve just gone all in for wire harp, and no longer pursue other stringed instruments. I play primarily only for my own enjoyment now–

Contouring the nail assymetrically didn’t afford much of a solution–as I employed this same contour for guitar

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