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The pickup that L&H installed at the factory on my 85CG was the K&K Big Twin (two pickups) with 18″ and 36″ leads. To get the longer leads, you may have to do a special order with K&K or perhaps order it from L&H.
I’ve not used any of the battery powered amplifiers. I run the pickup direct to the house mixer with a Behringer Ultra-DI (gives an XLR balanced output to the mixer).
Attached are measurements for strings C5 to E7 on my L&H 85CG. Measurements are to the center of the lower prong of the disk (or the center of the fixed nut). I measured the strings with a flexible tape measure in metric and the accuracy is estimated to be +/-1mm. I converted the metric measurement to inches since it looks like that’s the preferred dimension for those following this topic.
Strings C5, B5, A5 were measured from the top of the plastic grommet on the sound board. The rest of the strings had no raised grommet.
I did not list the specific accuracy of the tuning of each string. The distances are fixed independent of whether it sounds a few cents sharp or flat.
The last 3 columns of the spreadsheet are what Carl probably needs — the ratio of total string length to the nut-to-disk-prong distance (or disk prong to disk prong). Plotting them versus string gives almost a “straight” line for the wire strings. The gut strings don’t quite follow the straight line.
I was not clear on my earlier post. I should have said:
Flat: on pitch
Natural: on pitch
Sharp: +03 centsBalfour —
Yes, I had thought that all the L&H concert grands would have been very close. Perhaps it’s because of the age of the harps — mine is only a bit over 2 years old and I suspect Carl’s is older.
When I was on the L&H factory tour 2 years ago, they said that all of the professional concert grands (except the Salzedo) had the same sound box and mechanisms. They also said that the mechanisms for Salvi Harps were assembled in the Chicago factory (although perhaps the design dimensions could be different).
For a given string with a given tension, the frequency*length should be constant (in theory).
On my 85CG (s/n 21594) the C5 string has the following spacings:
Flat to natural: 5.52cm (on pitch)
Natural to sharp: 5.27cm (on pitch)
Flat to sharp: 10.79cm (+03 cents)
Total length (nut to eyelet): 102.7cmThese spacings are a bit less than Carl measured on his model 23, so his total length will probably be longer than mine.
From theory, the total length from these measurements should be 98.4cm (using the flat-to-natural distance) or 98.9cm (using the flat-to-sharp distance). Both are wrong compared to the measured length of 102.7cm by quite a large difference!
The reason is because of the increased string tension from the engaged disks. The frequency*length is really not constant due to the increased tension. On this particular string on my harp:
Natural: frequency*length * 1.00250
Sharp: frequency*length * 1.00453Applying these corrections for the increased tension, I calculate the correct string length of 102.7cm
If Carl’s C5 string has similar increases in tension from the disks, then I would estimate his C5 string is in the range of 106.3 to 107.3 cm. With similar assumptions, Carl’s B5 will be in the range of 110.3 to 115.1 cm.
Note that the increased tension in lighter (shorter) strings will be quite different than on the heavier (longer) strings — especially on the wire strings. Errors from measuring small numbers (and small changes in assumed tensions) will translate into larger errors in calculating the total length.
So am I close Carl?
As a former (recovering) engineer, I understand the math. But don’t the disks (or levers) will also increase the tension on the string a bit causing the string to go sharp a bit more than the formula would predict?
When I took the L&H factory tour in Chicago 2 years ago, they said that all of their full sized harps (with the exception of the Chicago and Salzedo) had the same construction for the soundboard, body, and action. I played a number of different harps and bought an 85CG because I really liked the sound of that particular instrument. Two other 85CG harps I played sounded quite different and had some subtle difference in the feel when plucking the strings. My conclusion was that there is more difference between individual instruments than there is between models. Small variations occur in the wood of the soundboard and can have a significant impact on the sound.
If you prefer more carving, decoration, and gold leaf then choose a model that offers that. But in any case it’s important to play an instrument to see if you like the sound and the feel.In reply to Wil: Yes, it works to transfer via MusicXML. I regularly use the .mxl file generated by Finale and send to someone who uses Sibelius.
I’ve used Finale (on a Mac) for a long time. Others prefer Sibelius. If you want to have professional quality music engraving (i.e. ready for publication) then I would encourage you to pursue one of these two programs. They have a learning curve that can be a challenge. Finale has on-line video tutorials. Look at some of those and see if it’s something you are interested in pursuing.
Just because you have a program capable of making pretty pages, it doesn’t mean the notation is correct. Either of the programs allow you to violate all sorts of traditional notation rules. There are times when I wish there was some auto-correct option.
Time to create a sheet of music depends on the complexity. A simple page with a grand staff can take as little as 15 minutes for a clean final copy. More complexity takes more time.
As for equipment — a computer, a printer, and the software. But it’s much easier if you also have a midi keyboard that connects to the computer via USB. Basic keyboards can be had for around $100.
My first pedal harp was a Chicago Petite 40. After 3 years, I upgraded to an 85CG. I went to the factory in Chicago and played a wide range of harps in the “under $30K” price range. There is a definite difference in the construction and sound as soon as you get into the “professional” harps. To my ear there was a big difference between the 85E and the 85CG harps that I played. As Karen said, the Chicago series is made quite different from the professional series. When I was there (June 2019) the price difference between an 85E and an 85CG was only $2000 (and well worth the extra).
Definitely look for a low mileage used harp that you can play in person.I wrote to John Rutter and he was kind enough to reply:
Dear Mr Ooms,
I wrote these arrangements specially for the recording and I’m afraid they aren’t published.
Best wishes,
John RutterIt’s been 5 years since this original post. Has anyone found a harp & orchestra score for “A Gaelic Blessing” and/or “The Lord Bless You and Keep You” as played on the John Rutter/Catrin Finch CD?
I did find the Suite Lyrique but it’s a bit more advanced than I want to try at this point:
https://global.oup.com/academic/category/arts-and-humanities/sheet-music/composers/rutterj/plucked-and-strummed-strings/?lang=en&cc=gbDavid D’Arville of Virginia Harp Center has an excellent YouTube video that shows some things to look for.
Search for “How to buy a used pedal harp”
I started playing 4 years ago when I was 65 years old (formerly played classical guitar). I started with a Troubador I rented from my instructor. After about 6 months I bought a Chicago Petite 40 pedal harp. My reason for the pedal harp was because I wanted to get into more contemporary music that had a lot of accidentals. Just this past summer I took advantage of the L&H bounty program and upgraded to an 85CG. The main reason is that I wanted a greater dynamic range. I really love the volume of sound, the dynamic range, and the longer sustain of a full sized pedal harp.
The disadvantage, of course, is it’s harder to haul. When the neighbors ask me over for a “jam session” it’s a chore to move the larger harp.
I don’t regret my decision and I would do it all over again. However, it really depends on what kind of music you want to play (and whether you can afford it).
