Trying to decide which LEVER Harp to purchase?

[Biagio]

“The advantage I had was years of working with other instruments to know that it could be changed, and to not be scared by the process because I fully understood the physics involved.”

Exactly. I’ve revised string designs for any number of people who liked the size of their harp but wanted a different range or tone. It really is not all that intimidating.

I find that many are intimidated because they are under the impression that the mathematics are difficult, and/or think that whatever one buys cannot be changed. Some teachers, as well, do not understand those technical aspects of the instrument so of course neither will their students.

Another little understood fact is that many top makers are happy to do custom work.

Thanks to computers one no longer must grind through the calculation string by string; and the math is not really all that opaque if one has retained their high school algebra. I really do wish though that more makers would publish and if necessary explain the string statistics (vibrating length, tension, %tensile strength, tension/length, specific string composition). Same sort of thing goes for other design aspects: kind of sound board e.g.

I understand why they might wish not to but on the other hand a) it would go a long way to educating players and b) anyone who really wants to copy their design only needs a good tape measure and micrometer.

And so it goes.
Biagio

[charles-nix]

In my day job, building pipe organs, the exact same mystique persists about instrument design. Organists (and builders!) are forever talking about this or that builder’s “secret scale” formula that makes their instruments special to them. People even purchase the scale information if a builder goes out of business.

Knowing scale information means knowing the material, wall thickness, diameter, and other construction details of an organ pipe. Anyone with a tape measure and access to an example of a builder’s work can acquire that information.

What they cannot acquire is the ability to bring the sound of that instrument to life in a given room. Two identically scaled organs in different rooms, finished by different voicers, will be very different instruments.

For harps, the big difference is the harpist: technique, finger and hand position, strength, “pulling or plucking,” status of calluses. I suppose most of the voicing by the builder is determined in the design phase if one discounts stringing changes custom to that one instrument.

I wonder if one can “voice” a soundboard after the harp is built to alter its resonance?

[Biagio]

1-“For harps, the big difference is the harpist: technique, finger and hand position, strength, “pulling or plucking,” status of calluses. I suppose most of the voicing by the builder is determined in the design phase if one discounts stringing changes custom to that one instrument.”

2 “I wonder if one can “voice” a soundboard after the harp is built to alter its resonance? ”

1 That is the point that my friend Laurie Riley often makes: however intentional the design how it actually performs depends on the player.

2 Not easily. In some instances one might remove one or more internal supports and/or add thin internal wood patches to emphasize some aspect such as overtones in some ranges. Generally that is not going to be done except on a shop prototype. Other things one might do while “proofing” a design might include covering string access holes, drilling large (3 inch+/- diameter) holes in the base, muffling to lower part of the SB to get an idea if it needs to be widened in the next iteration. I find that most of the issues especially with nylon lies in the upper registers. Often the builder has made that too thick. Tinkle tinkle little star….

It would be easier to just work with the strings if it is not a prototype. For instance, if more resonance is required one might go to heavier cores in the wound strings, and fluorocarbon in the monos. if less perhaps fiber core silver wound, and so on.

Now there’s an example where experience and experiment have no substitute.

Sometimes though one must just accept the fact that one needs to begin again and save what’s not salvageable for a nice comfy fire. Honestly, I don’t know any harp maker who has not done that:-)

Biagio

• This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Biagio.

[Tacye]

Thank you gentlemen.

For the record I did not, of course, mean an unwillingness to help, but an inability to be helpfully specific. There are a few people whose food tastes I know well enough to order for them in a restaurant, and a few harpists whose harp playing I know well enough to anticipate their taste in instruments. I have seen so much variation in the match of musician to instrument that I know I can’t tell you what you will like on what you have written here, and don’t think anyone can, just to try widely and with a broad range of specifications.

Your background does make me think you will appreciate a high quality instrument and that will be expensive. I can’t think of any lever harp model I have encountered made by an established maker in the middle to high expense range that I would think a waste of money for someone who liked it in particular and appreciated any special properties (such as the extreme lightness of Heartlands). Makers wouldn’t stay in business if they made bad, expensive harps.

[Biagio]

Well well one tries and I admit that this got a little heated. I must be getting old and short of patience.

I agree Tacye, that given JS Moir’s background he would be happiest with an excellent harp (and an expensive one). One might ask however, why go into all the other harps mentioned (from Troubadour to Marini to Stoney End and so on) if he is studying with a teacher?

Just ask him or her – one who has a more intimate understanding of what might be suitable.

Biagio

[Biagio]

Greetings friends,

I started to feel guilty over my rather brusque comments to Mr. Moir, so wrote to him directly, suggesting an approach he might take for deciding on a harp to suit his needs. I copy that msg below in the hope that it might help others; comments or criticisms are of course always welcome:

Dear sir,

I am sorry that our discussion on the Harp Column became heated; no doubt there was misunderstanding on both sides. Well, I’ve cooled down and in the meantime thought of an approach that might help you to home in on a suitable harp (I’m assuming from your impressive background that you would prefer a top quality instrument). So you might consider the harps played by some of world-class musicians:

Frank Voltz – L&H Prelude
Maire ni Chathasaigh – Rees Aberdeen Meadows
Kim Robertson – Salvi Egan (no longer made but they turn up as used instruments)
Harper Tasche (Dusty Strings FH36)

There are others of course; that gives you a modest but pretty diverse selection. As said earlier, it would be irresponsible of me to recommend any one in particular: these are all great harpists, all great harps…and all are different.

Best wishes,
Biagio Sancetta

Edit: WRT “cooling down”… it’s a weak excuse, I know, but I am half Sicilian and half Highland Scots, neither species known for their coolness of temper. Mea culpa etc. Perhaps he will rejoin us or join the Harplist.

My best to all,
Biagio

• This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Biagio.

[jsmoir]

Signor Biago:
Indeed, it has been two years since my last posting to this forum. I vowed in my last entry on this forum [fuhgeddaboutit] I would not come back, to someplace where I was so shoddily treated. Time has changed that viewpoint, however.

So, I was surprised to read your last post. I never received this message you mention, but that could have been due to any number of issues-spam filters, not checking this account much, etc. However, I am grateful that you reached out to apologize to me. I had cause this last week to go back and re-read my comments on this thread, made as they were the very first week I signed up for this resource, and truly felt (and now am sure of it) that I had been greatly wronged, even at a distance of 24 months. I had tried to be factual, informative, and direct. That was all.

So, it’s a mark of a true gentleman, that you would acknowledge that wrong and seek to rectify it, especially on a public forum. I accept your apology. But it was not you who wronged me, initially. That person has never thought to do the right thing, as you have done.

Be that as it may, you asked a question in your last post, prior to the apology: “One might ask however, why go into all the other harps mentioned (from Troubadour to Marini to Stoney End and so on) if he is studying with a teacher?” Because the person who initially started this thread, wanted to know what others thought about folk/lever harps- that’s the simple answer. I merely was giving (as I said) my ‘two cents worth.’ Since I had just come fresh from my first AHS conference (the Redlands 2018 conference), I felt I was in a position to give my opinion.

FWIW, as I’ve noted in a few new posts (this week- 10/2020), I eventually purchased a Salvi Diana (used) that I truly love, and am very pleased with my progress, my purchase, and my sound paradigm- as is my teacher. We also sold my Troub. IV, which I did NOT like, and have been working on pedal technique ever since.

But I still want to play a ‘folk/lever’ harp for accompanying myself as a singer: a pedal harp is NOT the instrument for that! I also have done much more research, and find that my needs (as a tall male) are vastly different (as I alluded to in my initial posts) than other harpists, when it comes to ‘folk/lever’ harps. It’s not just a matter of cost- it’s the applicability of harp size, string tension, upper body strength, (I’m studying Salzedo) and, above all, SOUND that is what was so elusive to me, starting out. Add to that, the expense for harps- sticker shock, I believe they call it. So, there you are.

I hope this time around I can make comments and not be made to feel unwelcome, simply because I am a male, and have strong opinions. For the record, I’m Highland Scots AND Irish- imagine my stubbornness! LOL

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