Is a lap harp a good idea for me?

[Elettaria]

Nope, apparently the frame isn’t built for it.  Wire may not be happening for me after all.  I am now wondering about a Callan 26, perhaps with FCB levers, if it turns out that there’s space when my partner finds a new flat.  Everyone says the range is more important than the levers, and I suppose I could stick to simpler repertoire.  If it’s 30″ or so (I’ve enquired, along with asking what the string tension is like and how much it costs to go for fluorocarbon strings), I could possibly play it sitting on the sofa with my feet up and the harp resting on the sofa between my legs, like I did with the wee wire harp, although I don’t know if that’d work for a harp this size.  It goes down to a C below middle C and has 26 strings, which I understand is a good range.  How limiting is it to have levers only on FCB?

Edit (we keep postinng at the same time): the Zephyr you mentioned is $850, which would come to a lot with shipping and customs, so probably not.  Pity, that would be a nice option.

[Biagio]

“How limiting is it to have levers only on FCB?”

I guess that has a lot of “depends” in the answer, LOL.  What the purpose is for the small harp, what kind of music you intend to play, how happy you are with transposing,how creative you are about faking accidentals….

FCB levers are pretty typical for Celtic music where the favored keys are C D F and their related minors.  Much of that music though is modal so the issue of “keys” gets a bit tricky.  For example, “Baloo Baleree” aka Skye Lullaby  (granted a very simple tune) may be played in Ionian, Lydian or Mixylodian.

Sometimes you can get away with playing a blocked second or a fourth in lieu of a lever change that is too fast, (C C# C for instance)though the harp police will arrest you if you do that in public.

I usually suggest that people get the minimum they need on a small harp for what they play, but insist that the levers be Truitts.  Sure, they cost more than Lovelands, but it is  very easy to mount more later if you wish.

If you can afford complete levers that is of course the most flexible.  Many tune to Eb with that.  Others tune to C and if they want to play in a flat key just raise all the levers except the flats.  Now you are a half step high so don’t do that if you play with someone else, but alone that lets you play in ANY key.

Sure it’s nice to have a big range; on the other hand you can make some pretty good music with the creative use of ornaments and RH chords.

Best wishes,

Biagio

[Elettaria]

My rental 34 string harp has fallen through in a particularly stressful way, and it may be a while until I can get another one.  My Mark Norris won’t be made for another 16 months.  So I am thinking of getting a more serious lap harp now, to tide me over until I can rent a decent harp, at which point it will become my weekend harp and live at my partner’s.

Has anyone tried the County Kerry, and if so, what do you think of it?  What’s the tension like? I’d get it fully levered, Truitt levers (you can paint the Cs and Fs, right?), in cherry if I have a choice.  It goes from low C up to E, 24 strings.  It was my favourite lap harp when I went to the festival last year, but I hadn’t laid hands on a harp in twenty years and wasn’t sure what I needed at that point.

[Elettaria]

I have a one year old County Kerry in maple arriving tomorrow!  I am preparing for it by getting out songs that will fit, putting them into MuseScore, and transposing them into a key that will fit both my voice and the harp’s range, with a spot of rearrangement if necessary.  The lute seems to have a good range for converting to a small harp, if you can handle the chromaticism.  Dowland songs tend to be slow enough that you can get to the levers without fluster.  Here’s Weepe You No More Sad Fountains, done on avoidance from the 89 bars of In Darknesse Let Mee Dwell.

What music can folks recommend for a 24 string harp, tenor C up to E, for an intermediate harpist?  I’m thinking of tuning it in Ab, so that if I’m playing in F minor I’ve got the dominant at the bottom.

[Elettaria]

Here’s where I am now.  The County Kerry was a beautiful little thing, but it wasn’t right for me.  I found it a bit tinkly, and I think I’m going to find all nylon-strung lap harps that way, since they don’t have the big body of a 34 string.  I also didn’t realise it would need daily tuning, which for me is a dealbreaker.  Plus I just spend time missing the extra range.  A smaller version of an ordinary lever harp doesn’t seem to suit me.  It did at least give me some experience of wrangling a 31″ harp, which is a bit awkward.  I kept on messing around trying to find the right height stool for it.  The strap was definitely a help, but I’ve a feeling it was slightly constricting to wear.

I am reconsidering wire, and I hope I’ve finally found the right luthier.  After asking a couple of luthiers making lap harps whether they could be converted to wire (nope), and finding that the general practice for making harps is to use historic construction techniques which necessitate constant tuning, I stumbled across Dreamsinger Harps.  I’ve started chatting with Morris, who is lovely.  He’s using modern construction, including a birch/douglas fir laminated soundboard and companion stringing, and says the tuning is very stable indeed.  My main problem with the Ardival harp was having to tune it all the time, followed by difficulty in seeing the strings (I think I need to experiment more with marker pens and get spot lighting set up) and finding the strings were a bit closer together (I’m using fingerpads, not nails).  Dreamsinger harps look like they wouldn’t have the first and third problems, and for the second, I will make sure I have a strategically placed lamp. Morris recommends poplar, he says it’s the best option for sound and stability (cherry ends up too bright on his harps, apparently), and it looks a lovely golden colour in the photos.

Firstly, what can people tell me about Dreamsingers?  I’m finding odd scraps of conversation in this forum and others, mostly good, the odd mention of strings breaking though.

Secondly, would a Druid (22 strings, going down to G below middle C) be a good range?  I think it’d suit me better in terms of curling up on the sofa with it comfortably and storage (my partner moved to a lovely ground floor flat with a garden, but it’s smaller than his last one), but am I going to miss the range?  One of the things I like about wire harps is that they’re a different enough instrument that you aren’t trying to play the same pieces or style, so you can manage a smaller range, and people do cope with the Kilcoy, after all.  Although I keep on seeing the Kilcoy on sale second-hand, so either 19 strings is too limiting or I’m not the only one who can’t handle the tuning schedule.  The Ardival is 22″ and 19 strings, I could sit cross-legged with it with my back against the sofa arm, and I could manage a slightly taller instrument.  The County Kerry was 31″ and awkward, I had to mess around with stools and straps and such and never did get comfortable.  (Possibly it would have been manageable eventually with some trick or other.)  The Druid is 27″ and 22 strings, which I think would fit me well, and the Bard is 30″ and 26 strings. which I suspect wouldn’t.  Or is it a matter of finding the right stick or what have you to support it?  Messing around with stools for supporting the harp is a right nuisance and realistically I don’t think it’ll happen in my partner’s flat.  I still haven’t quite worked out where we’ll store it anyway!  But then those low notes do sound lovely.  Is the Druid going to be horribly limiting as a wire harp, or is that fine for a range?

In full-sized lever harp news, I am finally at the top of the Clarsach Society waiting list, and my rental student Starfish will be meeting me on Monday.  It’s a new one, in walnut by the sound of it, and they are charging me less because they borrow it back for a week for the Edinburgh harp festival, so I am very pleased!

[Biagio]

I think since you ask that any good wire strung will be heavier than an equivalent sized nylon strung – using lighter woods such as poplar or (shudder) ply will have a really ugly sound and far too much echo/reverb.  That at least has been my experience (I’ve made a couple to experiment) and that of other friends.  As to the Dreamsinger specifically:

I (almost) never diss another harp maker but will say that if a harp is significantly less expensive than it’s peers that is reflected in it’s quality.  That does not make it “bad” just “not as good.”  An example on the nylon side would be a Rees Harpsicle compared to the Harps of Lorien Rafael. The former is fine for practice informal gigging etc. while the latter is professional quality.

I don’t like the way Morris strings them (one long string for two notes) and suspect that is why strings break more often on his.  One of my friends who has one is happy with it but she strings the usual way (one string per note).

For my money the best small wire strung for a lower price than the Ardivals is the Folcharp by James Skeen. Allison Stevick join in here…..

Best wishes,

Biagio

[Elettaria]

Thanks, Biagio.  I was a bit unsure about some of those things as well, though I’m not crossing him off just yet.  Do you know if Folcharp have the usual problems with needing constant tuning?

[Biagio]

Elletaria, I am bemused by the “usual problem of constant tuning” issue, if issue it is.  How often a harp needs tuning (any harp) depends on ambient climate, how hard the wood, how hard you play, what kind of pegs and more.  So I can only say this:

In my apartment I probably have to tune my rock maple wire strung (tapered pegs size #5) fairly stable climate less often than my nylon strung harps.  But the latter are at higher tension with thinner soundboards, so I’d expect that.

Outside – for example last weekend at our annual Society picnic – we were all retuning after a dozen or so tunes, nylon or wire.  I would not call that “constant” but certainly a wire strung is touchier than nylon or gut, no mater where you are:-)

If someone made a small wire strung with guitar tuner machines it would be nice – but clarsairs seem to be even more wedded to tradition than pedalists so not likely to see one like that.

The Folcharp costs less than Ardivals mainly because James uses a three part box construction rather than carving it out of a single block.  Triplett makes a nice little wire strung that way too (but they are a larger shop so price theirs higher). You will tune it as often as any other harp – out of tune strings are just more noticeable on wire than nylon or gut.

Off topic a bit – we went through our 200 tunes in the Society tune book to pick out those playable on wire – to keep it simple just those in G or C, with gap scales for C tuning (no Fs).  There were a surprising number of them but we have to recognize that a wire harp is a very different animal – you just can’t play it like nylon or gut so some tunes are just not suitable.

Biagio

 

[Tacye]

I have a 22 string brass strung harp with nylon spacing – would you like to borrow it for a bit to try out?  It is a Stoney End Eve I restrung.  Bottom note is usually the A a 10th below middle C.

[randal]

I have a triplett 25 wire for sale – excellent wee harp.  I’m in the USA.

Fwiw, this very well-built small harp is quite stable and requires very little tuning – it holds its tuning well despite varying climactic conditions . . . contrarily, my large triplett 30 wire requires pretty constant tweaking – as it seems more vulnerable to climactic fluctuation.

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[Biagio]

Wow, ask and ye shall receive.  These both sound like a good deal Elletaria.  Incidentally and speaking of Triplett, one friend re-strung her Zephyr with phosphor bronze and it sounds pretty good.  She says she does not have a problem with tuning or string breakage despite keeping the bridge pins.  Very generous of you Tacye!

Biagio

[Allison Stevick]

Oooo I hadn’t checked in here for a while! Lots of good conversation happening!

Since I’m late to this party, it may be a moot point by now–but I will chime in to say that I LOVE my Folcharp. And I’m with Biagio on the tuning thoughts. It depends a lot on the weather and materials. Mine holds a tune quite well, but during humidity/pressure changes and/or extended playing, I have to tune it more often. Just like I do my nylon strung harps. 🙂

Actually, something nice about my Folcharp is that when it goes out of tune, it seems to go out of tune more or less equally. So, sometimes I tweak-tune by ear to get it in with itself, just go ahead and play, then retune it properly when I’m done or later on. It just depends on whether I feel like doing a full tune (that’s usually after it sits unplayed for several days), or just minor adjustments and then jump into playing.

I’m rambling. Time to get to sleep.

I hope you find the one that works for you, Elletaria!

 

[Elettaria]

Wow, I’ve missed some exciting posts!  People offering me their harps: that’s really kind, though possibly not where I’m at just now.

I emailed Biagio, who got me talking to James of Folcharp, then spoke to Ardival, and we have realised why I am having to tune that Kilcoy all the time.  Did I mention that the friend who loaned it to me lives on a houseboat?  And that it turned up looking very sorry for itself, strings all slack, a few strings gone, a few more needing to be replaced, tuning pins rusted?  I replaced the strings, thankfully a friend of mine makes chain maille jewellery and did a beautiful job on the toggles, but the tuning pins remain a problem.  So Ardival are going to take it in when they can, take out the tuning pins, clean them thoroughly, put them back in so they’re tight enough.  James from Folcharp recommends coating them with paraffin before they go back in, not sure what the general view on that is.  I’m also not sure whether I could be doing all this myself.  I mean, for starters, how can you do it without having to completely restring the harp?

After that, I’m told that it will be like a new harp in that the tuning will take a while to settle, four times a day to begin with and all that, but then it should settle properly and I shouldn’t have to be constantly tuning it.  I tuned it two days ago for the first time in ages, twice in a row as recommended by Ardival, then the same yesterday, and yet again it was going out of tune when I’d barely started playing it.  I don’t know how much of that is the tuning pin situation, and how much might be my technique, if I’m somehow yanking it out of tune by playing it, even though I think I’m playing gently.  I know that you can play much more lightly using your fingernails, but I have never been able to stand having my nails anything other than as short as possible, and do like the sound perfectly well with fingertips, at least if it’s in tune!

It’s a relief to hear that wire harps are not meant to be this much of a nightmare, and that it’s not just me being incompetent.  I am going to try to make friends with this harp, and reassess where I am once I’ve been playing it successfully for a few months.  It may be that there’s a Folcharp in my future, or I might keep the Kilcoy.  19 strings is more restrictive with range, but easier for storage (my partner’s flat is pretty small and already crammed with dulcimers and such), tuning is quicker (I’m curious to see how big a deal it is once the harp is fixed), and I can fit it comfortably on my lap, whereas I’d run into problems with a larger, heavier harp.

Since I’d given up on it, my friend had been vaguely talking of taking it back, though I think she’ll be OK with me hanging onto it. However, she’s still living on a houseboat, and I’m wondering whether it would ever be a happy harp in such high humidity.  I was then curious as to whether any harp would cope with living on a boat, did a hunt to see if there are affordable smallish carbon fibre harps around (Heartland are neither), and came across Hayden Harps.  Does anyone know what they’re like?  They look rather ideal for boating in terms of size and (hopefully) resistance to humidity, and if she has the money and is interested, I’ll let her know about them.  It’s hard to tell from a video, but they didn’t sound as tinkly as is usual for that size.

[Biagio]

Hey good stuff here.  Just a few short notes before I have to boogie…..

First, on fixing stuff and tuning (don’t hit me if this sounds dogmatic because it is): basic harp maintenance is as much a part of being a musician as learning basic theory.  Please do not keep a harp on a houseboat (especially on salt water), in the back of the car with the windows up, or in the middle of the floor unattended.  OK now that’s off my chest let’s talk about the Kilcoy’s tuning issues.

Over time metal pegs will oxidize (yes, even anodized aluminum ones), the wood will get compressed and the fibers distorted.  You see it more often on very old harps, or on those that have not lived a sheltered life – as seems to be the case with this one.  A technician will not (usually) take off all the strings but rather do the needed one at a time (taking all off at once puts undue stress on the board and retuning takes longer).  The tech will do what a player would if they have the tools and desire: loosen all of them if it is a wire harp, remove one peg (carefully – you may be able to use the string!); clean it up if necessary with emery cloth or steel wool; examine the peg hole and if necessary ream it lightly with the correct size tapered reamer. Blow out residual dust, take it back to tension  and that’s it.  Then do the next one if you wish. Parafin  (candle wax)is not a bad idea but go lightly with it.

Second – about size.  I know James well and he gets pretty dogmatic sometimes but his point about size in a folk harp is well made (read it on his website under “Rants”).  More strings are not automatically better and a small harp forces one to learn some pretty advanced techniques to fully use its voice Which admittedly I have not yet!

We do not have the luxury of alternatives (James would say the “crutch”):  great big arpeggios, glissandos, levers or pedal to flip, and so on.  Remember that we are talking about folk music meant to be played on a folk harp, principally Celtic and wire.  For advanced playing that means very different hand usage than on a large nylon or gut harp, ornaments, damping, transposing skills…the whole ball of wax. Which, by the way, are also good to know if you are a pedalist.

But…even without all that a simple tune played with your heart and soul will be stunning.

OK I’m off my soap box now (huge grin).

Biagio

[Elettaria]

I’m not planning to send it back to the houseboat!  (Well, as far as you can say to a friend, “Thank you so much for lending me your harp, and on second thoughts everyone’s decided you’re not allowed to have it back.”)  It wasn’t on salt water, unless there’s something they’re not telling me about Oxford canals.  I realise that the idea of a harp on a houseboat is giving you the heebie-jeebies, but just out of curiosity, do you reckon a carbon fibre body harp would cope?  That flat body design looks like it’d slot into odd corners rather niftily, and there’s very little spare space on a boat.  Or should she just stick to the violin?

Not that I have a car, but I would never do that to a harp!  Please tell me it isn’t common?  I mean, the first thing I do on getting any musical instrument is to think about where it will be in relation to the windows and the radiators, including radiators on the other side of the wall.  I learned this the hard way through my mother’s neglect of the beautiful family 1924 grand Bluthner piano leading to a split soundboard.  She’d left it sitting in a nice sunny window and next to a radiator for twenty-five years, and then moved house.  I came back from my first term at uni, sat down to play, and realised something was very, very wrong.  *shudder*  Cost a fortune to get the piano refurbished, and they left a problem on the F# above middle C.

I’ve just spoken to Alex at Ardival, who says the Kilcoy definitely sounds like it needs professional work, so here are my notes on sending it back to them.  It’ll add £40 or so to the cost of repairing it, but it means I don’t have to wait months.

Recommended box size: 70 x 45 x 35, bubblewrap, then paper intestines, double-walled box.  Menzies Distribution do the boxes.

Hey, crutches are good things!  /steps off disability activism soapbox

Funnily enough, I don’t really like the sweeping glissandi style of harp music either.  Growing up a pianist used to a fully chromatic instrument means I am already having to adapt a fair bit to playing lever harp (and I do realise that flipping levers all over the place to play Bach is slightly missing the point, but damnit,  I love Bach, and lute suites sound awesome if you can play them on the harp.  Whereas the idea of playing Chopin on the harp just seems wrong to me, it’s so pianistic), and yep, playing on a purely diatonic instrument is new to me, but I’m looking forward to learning more, and working with a small range is part of the challenge.  My partner’s a mountain dulcimer player, after all, and those are principally diatonic, so we’ve both been learning more about modal music and so forth.  He often remarks on how much easier it is to improvise and to arrange a piece on a diatonic instrument.

As for transposing, hah, it’s way easier than on the piano.  One of the first pieces in Coupled Hands goes down to the F below middle C, and if you don’t have it, which the Kilcoy doesn’t, she suggests that you just play it all up a note, since that works for the notes involved.  I’m already transcribing plenty of music onto MuseScore, I’m happy to keep doing that, and transposing is blissfully easy on that.

I did like that rant on James’ site.  It also explained to me why lap harps tend towards tinkliness.  His site is a delight in general.

[Author]

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