Help: Lever harp types and strings

[emma-graham]

Djan, I can’t offer huge amounts of info for you except my own opinion (no in deapth knowledge of string physics and harp construction here – sorry boys!!!) I’ve tried the Salvis with silk gut and I didn’t like it. It just wasn’t a sound that appealed to me. I like the pilgrims but they aren’t my favourite harps in that price range. None of them have really ever turned my head in a crowded room!! I honestly prefer the Camac Hermine. For the money, if you find a good one, the sound is lovely. Rich bass and bright top end. If you are anywhere near Cardiff at the start of March, then this event might be a perfect opportunity for you to try the full range of Camac harps in one place. https://wales.camac-harps.com/en/cardiff-camac-harp-weekend-2019/ While you are there, the Harp Studio is not too far away in Newport where you could play the range of Salvi harps for comparison. They also stock Telynau Teifi harps too. Camac levers are superb for fast lever flipping. That’s something to take into consideration too.

[wil-weten]

Hi Emma, could it be that you just don’t like the upper strings of Salvi harps? These strings tend to sound a bit shrill in my ears, this may be better camouflaged with gut than with other kinds of strings. I am not a real fan of the sound of most Salvi lever harps, though I’ve got an old Salvi Heather pedal gut strung walnut harp of more than 30 years old, but then, Salvi Harps were still completely built in Italy.

I agree, for the price of a Pilgrim Clarsach there are lots of other possibilities that may suit the wishes of the OP better.

Like you, I think the Camac Hermine is a fine harp, especially for the money. I heard the Camac Hermine is the most popular of all current Camac lever harps and due to its small size and relatively low weight and low string tension, a lot of children start on this harp.

The question just is, whether this harp with low string tension would be best suitable for someone liking to play jazz. Think of all the necessary damping when one at the same time needs one’s fingers to flip lots of levers… I really think the OP would be happier with a harp with intermediate or perhaps even hard tension, as she thinks about having a pedal harp in future.

[Djan]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I loved trying the discussed harps, all unique in their own ways. I found the tension of Ravenna and Hermine too low to what I’m used to though. So went for a Camac Isolde Celtic. Camac have stopped Isolde Classic in the UK. Wil, you mentioned that you have played both Celtic Isolde and Excalibur. Do you prefer one over the other for a specific music type? Also how is the highest octave and bass between the two? I have a potential option to acquire one soon but not sure what I need to consider to make it worth upgrading as I don’t have a chance to try one. Thank you!

[wil-weten]

Hi Djan, it’s important to know that you find both the tension of the strings of the Hermine and the Ravenna too low. You could get accustomed to playing a harp with a low or intermediate tension, but maybe you simply prefer the sound of harps with a heavier tension? I think the tension of the Camac Isolde is not significantly heavier than the tension of the Ravenna…

I have tried and/or played several harps, but I have never tried or played the Celtic Isolde. I just happen to know something about the kind of strings on it. I played several middle tension lever harps at my teachers’, but frankly, I prefer playing a harp with a bit more tension, partly because I am used to that, but mainly because I like the sound of harps with a heavier tension.

At the moment, I do own a Camac Excalibur and a L&H Prelude as well as an old Salvi Heather. In the past I also owned the precursor of the Camac Mademoiselle. I love the Excalibur, with its tension between ‘celtic’ and ‘classic’ for playing Renaissance and traditional music. It plays rather easily.

I love the L&H Prelude with its standard pedal gut tenion for classical pieces, but I enjoy playing other kinds of music on it as well. As a matter of fact, this harps plays a bit more heavily than I like, but I do love its sound. Yes, I played the precursor of the pedal gut strung Camac Mademoiselle for many moons and I tried the current Camac Mademoiselle and they both play a lot ‘lighter’ than the L&H Prelude, although all these harps are strung with standard pedal gut… I guess the L&H plays heavier, because of its heavier soundboard. So, how ‘heavy’ a harp plays doesn’t only have to do with the string tension and string lenght, but also with the thickness of the soundboard.

In one of your latest mails you mentioned before that in future you may like to play the pedal harp. Well, if that’s the kind of sound you are looking for, you may want to try the Camac Korrigan, which is strung with standard pedal gut, or one of the L&H lever harps. Yes, all these are gut strung and you’d prefer harps without gut, but perhaps you like nylgut or silkgut, which are synthetic strings. Camac sells nylgut for pedal gut strung harps and this is a lot cheaper and supposedly stronger than natural pedal gut.

I think your really need to find a way to try a harp before you buy. Judging the sound of a harp is very personal. Even several a first glance exactly the same harps of the same model and built with the same kind of woodmay sound quite different, because they are built from different trees or branches of a tree.

I would never, ever, buy a harp unseen, unless I could return it for free when it wouldn’t be to my liking. The latter is a very nice possibility the large German music store Thomann.de offers and it also ships also to the UK. They sell L&H-harps as well as Salvi harps (and some sad Paki harps with non-paki names). Unfortunately, they don’t sell Camac harps.

This weekend you saw and tried several harps. Which ones did you like in sound and feel? Which ones didn’t speak to you?

[Djan]

I was mostly drawn to Camac Isolde and Korrigan.
Korrigan had a deep and rich tone but was a bit heavy to my liking, similar to the L&H harps. Telenn sounded a bit different to Korrigan even though it was gut strung.
The carbon strings on the Isolde felt and sounded very nice.
With DS Ravenna 34, the sound was bright but was not sure of the feel of the harp and tension. However interesting to know from your post that the tension is not far off from Isolde!

I tried the Excalibur once, liked the guitar like sound of the lower and middle registers but can’t remember the upper register. As it has a larger soundbox was wondering if the topmost octave is harder to play?

Also in one of your previous posts you mentioned Excalibur has a warmer tone with Kurschner strings but Isolde came across as more warm in the middle octaves. Been a while so I could be wrong.

[wil-weten]

The Camac Isolde weighs 14 kilo, the Camac Korrigan 15 kilo and the L&H Ogden… 12,7 kilo.
The Telenn is gut strung, but not with pedal gut, but with lever gut, which is at most places about 4 strings thinner than pedal gut. So, yes, the significantly lower tension gives a different sound.

I love the upper register of the Excalibur, as, in contrast to a lot of lever harps, it is not overly bright and for me they are comfortable to play, even though I am rather small.

In my ears, the Excalibur has a warmish clear sound. There are harps that sound more or less like guitars, but I don’t reckon the Excalibur to be one of them.

No, I didn’t say that the Isolde was more warm (as it isn’t.). You can read the whole thread back by scrolling all the way down and see a small option to go back from this page 2 to pay 1.

[Djan]

Thanks for the clarification Wil, much appreciated. Think you misunderstood my comparison. I meant to say, to my ear the Isolde came across as more folksy and warmer than the Excalibur in the middle octave. However both are great sounding harps.

[wil-weten]

Hi Djan, both the Isolde Celtic and the Excalibur have Kürschner carbon strings. The Isolde Classic has Savarez Carbon strings. Edit: both the Isolde Classic and the Excalibur have Kürschner carbon strings. The Isolde Celtic has Savarez Carbon strings.

The fact that you found the Isolde Celtic in the middle register sound warmer than the Excalibur, may have to do with the two specimens you tried. If you try let’s say five the ‘same’ harps, they all sound a bit different from each other. Some sound warmer or brighter than others of the same model and wood.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by wil-weten.

[Biagio]

It’s been an interesting thread and we often discuss tone in terms of strings, since these are the most “visible”. At the risk of being a buzzkill I’d like to comment that harp makers strive for a signature sound and the strings are only part of it: second or equally important is the SB material and shape.

That is somewhat more difficult to predict just by looking but there are a few things to observe. Taking a 5 octave harp as an example: some make the SB quite wide at the bass compared to other makers, the result being more sustain, sympathetic vibration and volume. Others achieve this by putting actual sound holes in the bottom (those in the back are more for string access.

Dusty harps signature sound (in the FH series) have a combination of SB and string design: mahogany in the top 3 1/2 octaves, spruce below, and the bass strings are bronze core with nylon windings.

Many others (following the pedal harp lead) use spruce all the way and steel core metal wrap bass strings. For those who want the bass to sound as close as possible to gut may use fiber core silver wrap.

Small variations in the SB wood, how it is tapered and the string lengths can make an audible difference even among harps of the same model.

The point of this little rant being the often repeated suggestion to try a particular harp out. The model and design can be a guide – but each may sound slightly different despite the makers’ considered intentions.

Biagio

[wil-weten]

I made a mistake. I said the Isolde Celtic was strung with Kürschner carbon strings, but I just saw at https://www.camac-harps.com/en/harps-en/lever/isolde-celtic/ that is is strung with (Savarez) Alliance. So, I had one of my senior moments. I am sorry.

I will correct my mistake above. So, there’s a different kind of carbon strings on the Camac Isolde Celtic and the Camac Excalibur.

[Sarah]

I started by renting a new Camac Hermine harp with carbon strings. It was a lovely harp but when I decided to purchase outright, I up-sized slightly and went for gut strings on Camac Korrigan. The harp is fab and the sound is beautiful. It has a fuller, more mellow sound than the Hermine had.

[Author]

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