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Thanks for mentioning this, David. I didn’t know that forum and now I do.
By the way, the OP may need to read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossposting. To me, cross posting is really annoying.
Edit: Here: https://www.reddit.com/r/harp/comments/bbgfd6/learning_the_harp_at_47_need_some_advice_please/ was the original post of the OP a few days ago. The OP already got lots of answers….
As to self-teaching, there are several great ways to do that. I have been intermittently taking lessons from a professional harp teacher and I can only recommend that. Now as self-teaching methods, I love Play the Harp Beautifully 1-3 by Pamela Bruner. There’s an optional, really illuminating DVD for the books 1 and 2.
You may additionally look at the instructional videos on Youtube by Ray Pool and by Josh Layne.
As to McHugh or Muzikkon harps, I’m convinced that in the long run you will be much happier with a non-Pakistani built harp. As to the Ravenna 26, this is a really nice harp, but it may the sound clip that made you believe it has a warm sound, as Dusty Strings itself calls their harps to be bright and that is the sound I heard when I saw them…
As to starting on a 26 string harp. Frankly, I would advice to take a harp with at least 34 strings if possible. A floor harp is much easier to play, has a richer sound and you wouldn’t need to adapt the music all the time. Most music for the lever harp requires 2 octaves below middle C. The Dusty Ravenna only gives you one octave below middle C. The Dusty Ravenna 34 can be bought without levers and is much cheaper then when fully levered. This could give you a great start and the levers could be put on later on. Yes, having a fully levered harp is great, but I’d rather a non levered nice harp than a fully levered so so harp…
Anyway, does one of the harp shops in your neighbourhood have Camac harps? I am a great fan of Camac harps. I don’t have any idea though of their prices in Canada. What other harp makes are their in the harp shops you could visit?
If you are not shy of wood working or know someone who is really handy, you may consider building a harp from a kit. Biagio knows some great kits.
For many years I owned a previous model of the Camac Mademoiselle and now I own a Camac Excalibur. I also own two harps of other makes.
I love Camac harps. The ones I know have a good dynamic range.
As to ‘shorter sound decay’, in theory, the heavier the string tension, the shorter the decay. I looked at some previous messages of you and you have (or had) a Salvi Livia and a Grand Harpsicle. The Salvi Livia has folk tension gut strings and the Harpsicle has nylon strings.
So, you may be looking for a Camac lever harp with pedal gut strings (also called concert tension strings) like the Camac Korrigan or the Camac Mademoiselle, or concert tension carbon strings (Camac Isolde Classic) or a tension between concert tension and celtic tension (Camac Excalibur).Yet, I can only advise you to try all Camac Lver harps, as some may feel better while you sit behind it and sound nicer than others. It’s extremely important to sit comfortably behind the harp in order to prevent back aches and other kinds of discomfort.
I just saw that in one of your earlier messages several years ago, you were interested in an Aziliz with heavy string tension. Unfortunately, you will have to contact the Camac shop to order one specially strung with heavy tension as the levers would need to be adapted to the thicker strings.
Edit: by the way, you may like to try the L&H’s lever harps as well. They all have a short decay and a good dynamic range.
Hi Siti, I’m a great fan of Camac harps. According to https://www.camac-harps.com/en/general-distribution/ there are maybe three distributors of camac harps in your country. The one below had the most information:
Malaysia
Rave Harps
Katryna Tan
+60 176 950 788
info@raveharps.com
http://www.raveharps.comYou could give them a call and ask them if they have a new or second hand Camac Bardic 27 in stock. Or another second hand harp within your budget.
Frankly, I prefer the Camac Bardic 27 above the Dusty Ravenna 26, but this is personal. Dusty make fine harps as well. I have tried the Harpsicle, it’s little weight makes it nice to take with you outside, but the sound of the other two harps is so much richer and the string tension is a bit heavier and this will help you to develop a better harping technique.
Another possibility, still much preferable for harp lessons than a harpsicle would be a Aoyama harp. They may be not too difficult to find in your country too.
Please, do try before you buy.
Please, make your own thread and we’ll be gladly willing to correspond about all your possibilities for getting a nice harp within your means.
I just found an elaborate and illuminating article on the question of humidy and dryness in relationship to harps at the website of Dusty Strings at:
https://manufacturing.dustystrings.com/blog/how-keep-your-harp-or-hammered-dulcimer-safe-cracking-winter-monthsI myself keep my harps between 40% and 60% of relative humidity. Where I live, this means that, depending on the season, I sometimes need to moisturize the room and sometimes to demoisturize the room.
Like Biago, I believe that as long as you yourself feel comfortable, your harp feels comfortable too. Also, I think that a stable environment in which you try to prevent fast occurring extremes in temperature and moist (like when one decides to go and play outsiede, is really important.
Hi Maria, the original problem has already been solved several months ago. I think it’s best not to write any further in this thread as things have worked out fine. No need to unnecessarily damage a shop’s name.
Your own problem seems at least partly to be a different one. Please, start your own thread and we’ll be happy to help.
Also, when the harp arrives, do ask your teacher to have a good look at it, both to its playability and its construction. Some of these paki harps are better than their reputation. Hopefully, you will get a more or less decent harp (just don’t expect the levers to be functional) for a great price.
As to the advice that one regularly hears about never putting gut strings on a nylon harp, I think people simply mean to say that nylon strung lever harps often can’t be restrung with popular sets of gut strings for lever harps, like those of Bow Brand, because the total string tension would become too heavy. Of course, a suitable set of gut strings could be calculated for a nylon strung harp, but this would result in a custom-made set of gut strings. Some, but not all nylon strung lever harps are built sturdily enough to withstand the extra tension a ‘standard’ set of gut strings for lever harp.
Hi Lawliet, would you like to share your experiences last Thursday or weekend with the harps you tried in Virginia Harpcenter? Just curious. 🙂
Hi Phuoc, either you flip the lever of an adjacent lower string (which is enharmonically the same) or you tune the string of the note you want to flatten half a note lower and flip it when you don’t need the note lowered.
I would contact the addresses mentioned at: https://www.camac-harps.com/en/general-distribution/#usa
Hannah, you’d better remove your gmailaddress or you will get lots of spam on it. You’d better ask the school about funding possibilities.
According to your subject description the school is abroad. As Scotland is part of the UK you may also wish to find out which changes Brexit will bring to your situation.
Good luck with your harp studies.
Biago and I must have uploaded our messages almost at the same time. I agree with Biagio’s preference for a Ravenna. The point with a harp with heavy strings, such as the L&H’s, is that when one doesn’t have a teacher who can prevent that you develope chronic injuries with one’s finger or wrist or shoulders, one would better chose a (lower) medium tension lever harp. Also, a Ravenna is better suitable for celtic jigs etc.
By the way, when going to Virginia Harp Center, they may know about professional teachter that do live in a reasonable distance of yours.
Edit: I just saw Harpist123’s latest message appearing and I completely agree!
Enjoy your harping queeste.
Hi Lawlett, how great that you can visit Virginia Harpcenter. In your first message you asked for alternative choices for the harps you already mentioned. I had a look at their website and saw that they also sell Camac lever harps.
I love Camac harps (as well as L&H harps). As to Camac lever harps with pedal string tension:
Do try the 38 string Camac Korrigan. It has pedal gut strings.
You may also like to try the 38 string Camac Isolde Classic. It has Kürschner fluorocarbon strings with classic tension.
Perhaps you’d like the 34 string Camac Telenn. It has folk pedal tension gut strings.
It surprised me that the Camac harps cost a lot more than they do in Europe. On the other side: the Dusties are cheaper at your place than they do in Europe.I also saw several interesting used harps there. The great thing about used harps bought in a reputable harp shop like this one, is that you get a good harp for a nice price. And when you later on would decide to resell it, with a bit of luck, you can resell it for the price you bought it or for even a bit more, as harps get pricier and pricier…
For some of the used harps at the site, unfortunately the sale is already pending. Like the 38 string Salvi Egan, or a 38 string L&H Prelude.
Where I in your shoes, I would definately try out the Camac Stivell. It has folk gut strings, but it is a ‘concert harp’ and so, perhaps you will really like its sound.
I also saw an old Camac Petite Classic. I had such a harp, then still called a PH38. I sold it mainly because I wanted more sophisticated levers. I was surprised to see it costs as a used harp still about twice as much as it would be sold for as a used harp in Europe.
I am not a fan of the newer Salvi harps, especially not from their recent Chinese levers. The used Salvi Egan still has performance levers, the same levers as you will still find on L&H harps.
There’s als a used Ogden of 2016. Frankly, I had expected a nicer price for a three year old harp.
I can’t tell much about Dusty’s. I can only tell you that I once had a harp (not a Dusty) with Loveland levers. And I do know, that when I would have the choice between a harp with Loveland levers or Camac levers, I would gladly pay the extra price to get Camac levers on that harp.
Finally, I myself have a Camac Excalibur (as well as two other harps). The Excalibur has a string tension somewhere between celtic and classic. There is a used one in the Virginia showroom.
Oh dear, I just saw that Virginia Harpcenter has two showrooms… and I saw their current inventories… I expected they had more Camac harps in stock. Anyway, it may have inspired you to test some of them later on.
Great questions and suggestions, Biagio.
One thing, I do think it’s important to ask oneself why one would really opt for a certain kind of harp. Wouldn’t it be a pity when one bought a pedal gut strung harp and then found out it was not really suitable for playing fast celtic pieces?
As to putting gut strings on a Ravenna, indeed, the right corresponding diameters could rather easily be calculated, but …thin gut strings sound and feel quite different from gut strings with a bit greater diameter. And they wouldn’t help at all in preparing oneself for a pedal harp. Also, it won’t be easy to find the right diameters for the red and the blue strings…They could be tailor made, of course, but I guess they would cost a lot more than standard lever gut strings, like those of Bow Brand.
Also, gut strings on a harp built for medium nylon string tension may feel rather thin and therefore uncomfortable under one’s fingers. The Ravenna can be had with Loveland levers, which perhaps could easily be adjusted for thinner strings, but the Ravenna could also be had with Camac levers, but these (great!) precision levers might partly need to be replaced with Camac levers meant for thinner strings.
Lawliet, if you like the sound of the nylon strung Dusty Ravenna, you may want to compare it to the Dusty Boulevard which is built like a Ravenna, but built heavily enough to withstand pedal gut strings. As you may hear in the soundclips, the Boulevard sounds quite different from the Ravenna. Which sound do you prefer? If you like them both, I think it’s really advisable to first widen your scope before narrowing it again.
By the way, you might ask Dusty Harps what they think about replacing the pedal gut strings of the Boulevard with celtic gut strings if after some time you’d discovered that you need a bit lighter tension for the kind of music you like to play.
As to the L&H Ogden, formerly one could have it strung with pedal gut or with nylon. So, it may still sound nice with strings with a not so strong tension. I don’t have experience with that, though. I only know how it sounds and feels with pedal gut strings on it.
Hi Lawliet, you’ve been researching for the last two weeks on what harp you should get and you’ve narrowed your choices down to the Dusty Strings Boulevard and the L&H Ogden, because of their concert tension strings. You would like to play celtic, classical and modern contemporary music on it.
As to your idea of maybe getting a pedal harp later, I don’t think that idea should limit your choices now. It’s not that hard to switch between pedal gut tension and medium strung tension, as the playing techniques would be practically the same. Just avoid harps with lower string tension, as these don’t force you to develop a good technique for harder tensioned harp strings.
So, my first step would be: listen to a lot of video clips, preferably not those that have been manipulated by some software. And listen well to how they sound in the lower, middle and high registers. Some harps have great basses, other great middle registers, some harps have really nice very high notes and some have a combination of all of the above…
What kind of sound do you like? Warm and full? Bright and lively? Etc. etc. And then, try to put your fingers on as many of the harp models you found interesting.
Also interesting: are you a small or a large person or something in between? I’ve got a Camac Excalibur, which suits me fine with its tension somewhere between classic and celtic and I’m able to reach tenths. I’ve also got a L&H Prelude with classic tension, it has an almost pedal harp sound, but my small hands struggle with grasping tenths in the lower register as the L&H’s have a wider string tension in the bass than Camac or Salvi harps.
Harps do sound very different from each other, this is also the case with pedal gut string lever harps. And also the way they feel while playing can vary a lot. I tried a modern Camac Mademoiselle (before, I owed its predecessor model) and it played like it was strung with lever tension gut instead of pedal tension gut. Yet, it was really strung with pedal tension gut. The L&H Prelude I bought, is also strung with pedal tension gut, but it plays heavier than the L&H Prelude (as well as its predecessor model I owned before). At my teacher’s I play a L&H Ogden, it has pedal tension gut and it feels like it has even stronger tension than my L&H Prelude, perhaps because the strings are shorter and the body is smaller, so one has to put more effort in it in order to make it sound great.
As to all the kinds of music you mentioned. It is very hard to play fast celtic embellishments on a pedal gut strung harp. So, how important would be able to play celtic music for you? As to playing classic music on a harp, would you like the lever harp sound almost like a pedal harp?
Which harps did not make it into your shortlist and why? This information would help us to suggest harp models you really would like to try.
