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Mmm, I do understand that the old blades of a Clark harp are less than ideal, but nevertheless, I think that replacing some of the blades with modern levers, would diminish a great part of its beautiful ‘heritage’ and artful looks…
Thanks for the pictures! I love seeing a harp ‘in progress’.
I get the impression that your harp would originally have a F below middle C as being the lowest string of your double Brittany. According to Stoney End’s site, though, the lowest string is G below middle C…
Please, enlighten me.Already looking forward to the next pictures!
Hi Harpquestions,
If you like to play a lot of chromatic music, e.g. you love jazz, a crossharp Esabelle maybe the way to go, as it is suitable for travel and has a nice price. In its 6×6 version the lowest note is D below middle C. In de 5×7 version the lowest note is G below middle C. As most music for small harps goes at least a whole octave below middle C, this means you will have to be able to adapt from the start. This is a sure recipe for a very steep learning curve.I can imagine people who need a travel harp choose for the double strung Brittany as a second harp. But I understand that this will be your only harp (to start with). In that case, I think you need to wonder whether you are prepared to pay quite a lot of money because of all the (expensive!) levers you need on a double strung: namely twice as much as on a single strung.
When you would choose a levered single strung harp, it still is very possible to play some accidentals in the music (though this takes some practice).
In fact, if I would do things all over again, I would buy a single strung harp with at least a whole octave below middle C, but preferably two octaves below middle C.
In the United States this would be a well built, nice priced harp may be the Ravenna 26 (lowest note a whole octave below middle C) or the Ravenna 34 (two octaves below middle C). In Europe you would have other nice priced choices.
A Ravenna 26 may suit you later on as your travel harp (when you will have come to the conclusion that a 34 string harp gives you much more possibilities to play from sheet music meant for lever harp.
By the way, I would consider to hire a harp for at least half a year, in the meantime you can find out what sound and string tension you like (or don’t like).
Hi Biagio, you wrote “They (Savarez) do indeed sell wound strings but unfortunately (as is also true for Piastro, Bow Brand, etc) they do not tell you much beyond the intended use – e.g 6th octave (harp) ”
I’ve got positive experience with the email helpdesk of Savarez (I put a link to their contact page somewhere in the thread above), so, when you want to know something, just mail them in English.
As to the Dutch shop, I happen to know that they are willing to order any Blevins harp. One can communicate oneself with Blevins about the special wishes (like the kind of wood and/or levers). The shop takes care of the ordering from the States and one pays to the Dutch shop, I believe. The point, of course, it that one would buy a harp one could not try out before.
Hi Mae,
Thanks for enlightening me. Now I understand better how you plan to adapt your harp.I get the impression that Gary’s answer to your plan to lower the range with one step or even five steps, is “It is hard to say”… instead of “OK”.
Why would a 6×6 cross strung harp be less “homogeneous” than a one row or two row harp of about the same dimensions?
By the way: this may really interest you: the Stoney End 5×7 cross harp Esabelle goes only down to G below middle C. The same harp, but made with a 6×6 division goes down to D below middle C. But lowering the harp with one step to C below middle C would not sound nice, Gary said to me.
Now, before you think that on your harp a D below middle C is possible: the cross strings of the Esabelle are somewhat larger than those of the Brittany. And both the 5×7 as well as the 6×6 version sound really nice for their size. You can find its dimensions on the internet. I found a picture with the small harps next to one another on http://www.minehara.com/stoney/images/stoneycatalog1.jpg
Hi Mae,
Wow, what a nice pictures. They convinced me though that building from a kit is not my cup of tea. But wow, do I love the wood of your harp! And Tim found a really nice solution for the skewed heart shaped hole.
I am hoping for more pictures, and, of course, when the harp is ready, a link to a sound clip.
I do hope, your downtuning plan works out fine!
Hi Mae,
Above I asked 3 questions in this thread to which I still hope to get an answer. My questions may have get lost in my wordy posts above, so I will rephrase them below.1. I still like to hear what Tim Hampson, who is helping with putting the harp together, thinks of your downtuning plans. As a harpbuilder he must be able to calculate the right strings for you. Then you won’t run the risk of ending up with an exploded harp or a harp that sounds real sad.
2. I wonder what Gary may have meant exactly with his ‘OK’ to your plans to tuning down the harp by five steps (you mentioned 4 steps, but from G to C is really 5 steps).
When I thought of ordering a 6×6 cross strung from Gary with the lowest string D below middle C, I wanted it adapted to a whole octave below middle C, so, only one step! But Gary told me I could not order that, as the harp would not sound quite a nice…
Anyway, maybe your harp and the harp I dreamt of having, are not quite compatible…
3. Why not measure the length of your strings, mention the gauges of the strings of your harp and ask Savarez Alliance to advise you on replacing the lowest nylon strings with carbon strings? You will find the contact information above.
I still am afraid it is not a good plan to use the strings from the Camac Bardic: they are meant for a quite different harp with much longer strings than your harp has on the positions you want to place them…
I just happen to know the gauges of the 3 lowest strings on the Camac Bardic 27. This is not from my own measurements, but from information from a reputable harpshop. I do hope the information I received is correct. Anyway, for a few years already, these 3 strings have been sounding fine, without any trouble, on my little 34 string lever harp that was built for Bow Brand natural gut light pedal tension (this is a tension somewhere between normal pedal gut tension and lever gut tension).
I replaced the original C, D and E wire strings below middle C for the Alliance Savarez KF-strings to get a smoother transition form gut to wire strings. The F below middle was and is the lowest gut string on that little harp. By the way, they feel like they are of a lighter tension than the neighboring gut and wire strings next to them, but this is deceptive! They are just lest stiff…
As to the gauges of my 3 carbon strings
My C27 is 1.80mm or 0.0708 inch
My D 26 is 1.72mm or 0.0677 inch
My E 25 is 1.60mm or 0.0630 inchHave a look at the string charts of Alliance Savarez. You will notice that these 3 strings are meant for heavy tension pedal harps, not for a small 34 string harp like mine… So, these gauges are definitely not what you would expect them to be for a small 34 strings lever harp… Yet, they must be the right gauges for the Camac Bardic 27…
So, I do hope you will consult Tim Hampson and/or Savarez about your adventurous downtuning plans.
I am looking forward to your next update!
Hi Mae, well, I may have misunderstood you, but I wouldn’t know on which point.
Anyway, as to the length of Savarez strings you are looking for:
http://www.savarez.fr/p-ref-harp-1m.html
http://www.savarez.fr/p-ref-harp-1m50.html
http://www.savarez.fr/p-ref-harp-2m.htmlEdit: counting one plus one, I think, you would like to have the 22 string double Brittany tuned down from the lowest note G below middle C to C a whole octave below middle C. That would be not four but five strings lower than the harp was built for. As it is a double harp, there would be no space for through pins, so you would indeed need zither pins.
As this is a low headed harp, I fear the sound of the lowest strings would be very dull and I think the melody strings won’t sound great either. In your thread about building this harpkit you mention help from a reputable harp builder. I think it would be a very good idea to ask his opinion on your idea (as I still think
Hi Mae, you say that you are building a harp meant for a rather light string tension. You wish to compare it to the Camac Bardic 27, because the length of the lower strings are about as long as the harp you are building.
One of the problem is, as I already tried to explain, that the Camac Bardic is a very sturdy harp that has fairly heavy tension strings and that putting the same strings on the bottom of your lightly built harp with maybe about the same dimensions might bring your harp in structural danger. Besides, I think that the heavy tension of the lowest Camac Bardic strings is more suitable for through pins than for zither pins.
This: http://www.fisherharps.com/Fluorocarbon_to_Nylon_Conversion_Chart.pdf may give you an idea if you still want to compare the diameter of your nylon strings to Savarez Carbon strings.
Hi Mae, I am sorry, but your idea “The tension, length, frequency, diameter and density of a harp string are all connected and you can choose which ones to fix and which to play with. “ is partly correct. The problem is that some harps are built to withstand heavy tension while others are optimized for light tension. The Camac Bardic has a pretty heavy tension.
As to convert nylon strings to Savarez Alliance Strings, you may like to ask them yourself: http://www.savarez.fr/anglais/contact-savarez.html I had a question once and got a friendly and knowledgeable answer in English.
I understand now that you want to tune your harp a fourth down. I just wonder what you mean by the ‘designers’? Every harp builder would be able to tell you what the corresponding Savarez carbon string is for the nylon string he used.
But my biggest surprise is that ‘the designers’ said it would be ‘OK’. I think they just meant, it would not ruin the construction of the harp. I do expect that the harp just would stop sounding beautifully. If you are lucky, lowering the lowest note by one or two notes would still give a nice sound, but by four notes? So, I think you are in for a desillusion. But I do hope I am wrong.
Also, replacing the strings by other strings may have consequences for the levers. Depending on the kind you have on your harp, they may to only need to be adapted for the new diameter, but you also run the risk to have to replace some levers.
@ Mae, I really wonder what use the information you are looking for may have. If you want to find out what kind of strings to put on a relatively small harp, you may end up with an exploded harp, if the harp was not built for a fairly hard tension…
@ Tacye, I’m afraid the link you give, just provides an example and so, does not give an answer to Mae’s question c.
I happen to know the diameters of the bottom 3 alliance harp strings of the Camac Bardic and they are way thicker dan the example for a small harp!
Hi Basel,
Good to hear that you have managed to flee from Syria.
Find out all you can about getting asylum in Europe. E.g.: as you are already in the EU- country Greece, you can’t ask asylum in another European country. So you need to apply for it in Greece. When you’ve got the refugee status in Greece I believe you can travel to the European country of countries of your choice. You may like to start reading here: http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/asylum/index_en.htm
Try whether the UNHCR Greek Council for Refugees (see: http://www.unhcr.org/48fdec18b.html ) can help you to get asylum or help you in any other way.
By the way, I remember that your parents got their visa to the United States but that your application was refused. I wonder why. This must be very painful to you. Anyway, I hope your parents are now safe in the USA.
I like Suzanne Guldimann’s books, especially Pastime with Good Company: Elizabethan Songs and Dances.
The book is arranged for lap harp, but I like to play it on my large 38 string lever harp.
Hi Mae,
Thanks for showing us the photo’s. The wood looks great! I am looking forward for the next pictures.
As the medaillion was missing, and worse, the soundboard’s cut out heart is way out of the middle, I think something may have gone wrong with the quality control of this harp kit.
Have you contacted Stoney End for a free replacement of these parts or for a partial return of the money you paid for this kit?
I have been thinking of ordering a harp from this manufacturer, so I am interested in the way problems are dealt with.
