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This is an interesting conversation and I am wondering: why the desire for a purely electric (non-acoustic) harp? I have never really looked into this, being an acoustic kind of guy. Are there special features about it that one can’t find with an acoustic harp? Some of he latter can be both with adding pickups, that much I know: most notably David Kortier’s with a piezo on every string, or more”modestly” Dusty Strings’ kit. Is there a big difference in capability, or is the venue the attraction?
Thanks for any information.
BiagioPatricia, I can’t think off hand of any particular reference, but probably any good book on instrument construction will refer to wood drying. I’ll summarize here if it will help.
For all parts of the instrument air dried wood is vastly preferable to rapid kiln drying. While the latter does indeed “dry” it, the cell walls collapse and elasticity is lost. That is particularly critical for the soundboard.
Ideally the wood is air dried to about 12% moisture content before it is cut and glued up for the board, then further slowly dried in a chamber to about 8% or less. As a very broad rule of thumb it takes one year of air drying per 2.5cm thickness to reach that 12% – billets for sound boards may be anywhere from 10cm to 20cm thick so one can see why solid wood boards harps cost a lot more than aircraft laminate ones!
The reason for maximum drying is so that if the instrument “lives” in a humid environment consequent swelling is less likely to result in cracking. Most of the shrinking and swelling on a harp occurs at the board across the grain so for a fairly large one the potential uninhibited movement could be up to 5cm (uninhibited if not glued, i.e.).
Some excellent Spanish guitars made in Mexico have sprung their boards because in those shops the cedar, spruce or whatever was only air dried and not sufficiently finished off before being glued to the body and internal braces. They were never really expected to end up in radically different climates. This is less of a problem these days.
If the harp has been well made one can say that “If you are comfortable, your harp will be too.” For a high tension instrument it is still a good idea to purchase a small hygrometer to keep tabs on humidity.
Biagio
As an additional note ha ha….the specific lever make is one item that we often overlook, even on well known brands. Some use brands that are readily available such as Camac, Brough, Loveland, Truitt e.g.. Others may not be so easily repaired or replaced as (will happen once in awhile) absent a factory technician- Aoyama, L&H Performance, for example.
I don’t know about the Mikel levers, but the pivot does appear to be a rivet – the sign of a less expensive design that may be a problem down the road.
Biagio
Well, they do say on “about us” that they are based in Pakistan but that alone I don’t think is necessarily a black mark. I can recall when Yamaha guitars were considered junk. The harps appear to be well made and the levers a vast improvement over what we’re used to seeing – the woods (ash, beech and spruce) are fine and looking at their shop gallery they seem to know what they’re doing.
I guess one might object to the “reverse engineering” – but to be honest we all study what other makers do.
I did not see any price quotes though and shipping also could be an issue for the 34. It looks to me as though they are trying to break into the market with a decent harp line and trying to break away from the “harp shaped objects Pakistani” reputation. If you have any trepidation and depending on location there are fine student level harps in the $1000-$1500 range.
I’ll be interested in what anyone who has played one says!
Biagio
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, LOL: any nylon strung harp can be restrung with gut in all or most of the range if they are sized appropriately. The Boulevard is a straight up pedal stringing. The other Dustys you will notice are not (pedal here, lever gut there, an E substitutes for a D etc.). Not a big deal if you prefer gut and don’t mind the expense.
Biagio
I’d forgotten that Paul, thank you! I never knew about the oiled vs. varnished either. So much to learn! That must surely be the explanation.
I’m still wondering about the clarsach, not to hijack the thread. The last known owner of that was Captain Robert Otway-Ruthven around 1900 – does anyone here know when it went to Trinity?
Biagio
Oh Gretchen, I am so sorry! Fortunately for me it was only my little finger but the same advice applies: let it rest and recover! It does not take that long to heal – a month or so – but you would be wise to not stress the joint for some time beyond that.
When you can tolerate it, alternating hot and cold pads may help with the pain; seek medical advice for that suggestion. Good luck!!
If it helps – and I guess it won’t perhaps, but anyway…my pinky got slammed in a NYC cab door and the driver drove on off. I think I saw a lot of Lombard St. for a few seconds before pulling the hand out. Definitely a “life flash” event:-)
Biagio
I cannot imagine wire strings of any sort on the first octave of a concert harp for any acoustic reason. I suppose it would be possible to put steel up there if the original strings kept breaking but it would sound pretty strange.
It’s conceivable that Lady Otway referred not to a concert harp but to a wire strung clarsach that she may have also possessed. The Castle Otway clarsach is now in the possession of Trinity College but the Otway family had a connection to the castle up until the 19th and 20th centuries.
That rather begs the question of why she would have requested strings from L&H if so; possibly they were her only string source. I’d bet if you asked the sales representative he could research it. They’re very courteous about this sort of thing.
Biagio
Elettaria, without knowing the design details it is a bit hard to say what might be causing those wacky trebles. But let’s assume that the design is sound (sorry, bad pun) and take the usual reasons.
First – on a wire strung a small change at one end of the harp can cause large changes in other places – this will sort itself out on it’s own as the instrument settles in.
Second – those thin treble strings are often quite close to the neck, especially if the neck is centered on the body rather than offset. So it is not uncommon for the pegs to protrude further out to compensate and the final windings are out near the tip. This causes a “wobbly” tone and frequent tunings – the peg actually vibrates. Or they are at a steep angle which makes them longer and therefor higher tension than one might think. The solution to this, alas is to keep fiddling with it.
Third – wire harps are notorious for being unhappy with changes in the weather. It is more noticeable in the bass, usually, but when those are “right” the others may now be “wrong.” That’s just the nature of the instrument.
Hope that helps!
Biagio
Pence well invested Mae. This relates to something I alluded to earlier. To whit, when a harp maker sits down to an entirely new design, he or she will do so with a particular “signature sound” in mind and design the strings and the rest of the harp around that. After physical parameters have been determined- weight, size, cost – they spend probably 80% of the actual time on those strings!
I know very few makers (and very few models by them) that do not build a prototype first and then tweak it. Once in a while something will come straight off the drawing board through the shop and when finished the maker will say, “That’s it.” But not often, and the first things tweaked are the strings.
Biagio
Fascinating comments Diana, thank you. One other thing that strikes me about the Cithara Nova, and that is it’s high arch. This allows those long strings a great deal of resonance and power that would otherwise have to be approached with a different string – perhaps silver wound artificial silk – and perhaps also somewhat higher tension. I found that to be true on my Selchie model – same general high head approach but perhaps 6 inches shorter in the bass.
I suppose that is one reason I really love lever instruments – there are so many ways to approach a problem and so many innovative makers out there trying different things!
Biagio
Hi Madeline,
I know a number of harpists who enjoy that venue, and I would guess it depends on your harp and where you set up as to whether amplification is desirable or necessary. So give it a go and find out:-)
Some of the most charming experiences I’ve had in airports (which are not generally known for being charming!) have been when transporting a harp. People got really googly-eyed just seeing it.
Biagio
Balfour, here are a few little factoids about those fluorocarbon strings, as you asked – thank you so much for your confidence! Some may already know about this – if so pardon the mini-lecture:-)
Some years ago deep sea fishers started to demand a line that would sink, be less prone to stretching and breaking than nylon, and be somewhat heavier for the same gauge (so that it would not take up as much space on the reel). The answer, from Japan, was FC. It quickly started being used on tennis rackets as well.
Now here is where it gets interesting if you are a harpist. Some enterprising lever harp makers realized that here was the answer to a nagging question: how to avoid the expense and humidity problems of gut in certain parts of the range. Savarez of France and Acquila of Italy quickly came to the same conclusion.
Some still prefer the fishing line to those more musically refined by Savarez and Acquila – mainly because larger than 1.01mm the Savarez and Acquila go to multi-strand. The tone is somewhat “mellower” with the monofilament in those maker’s opinions. As Carl noted, both types are somewhat denser than gut, and in my opinion while they are not as bright as nylon they are not as “mellow” as gut either. But…if you enjoy sometimes playing with the nails they are less likely to fray than gut. Since I like brass strungs AND nylon/gut I have FC rather than gut so I can use either nails or pads.
Here’s the good news: they cost somewhat less than gut and if the harp has been specifically designed with FC in mind – such as some Fishers and Sligos – sound wonderful and come in finer gradations than Tynex nylon. Which means that those of us who don’t particularly like fat wound nylon over nylon have another choice.
Recall that we are still talking about lever harps: smaller and (usually) at lighter tension than pedal instruments. It might be interesting to try one or two FC strings on that Ravenna 34 that you love just for kicks and giggles. Dusty will not carry Savarez or Acquila unfortunately, but since they do give the specs for gut it would be no big trick to figure out the appropriate FC substitution.
Cheers,
BiagioCarl, I am sorry if my remarks seemed directed at you and apologize in general if they seemed at all offensive to anyone. We’re on the same page here. People can ruin a good harp by throwing on strings for which the harp is not designed – or for that matter those of original design if the instrument is rather old. That does concern me and sometimes I get a little irritated by the very point you make – that most harpists do not really understand these issues and are forced to rely on the string label.
Guess I got carried away there – the question came up during a retreat. Specifically, the confusion that often exists over how strings are named. It seems like such a deep murky mystery to many and frankly I think that harp makers are partly to blame for that:-)
On the other hand, while they may not want to crunch through the math, it might be useful to know that if a specific string breaks they can substitute a spare for an adjacent one until a new string can be ordered; and that this will not break the instrument:-)
Biagio
Carl I beg to differ. I did say: consult the maker. however, relevant issues here are hardnss, tensile strength, and density. Measurable.
Densitylb/in^2 T lb/in^3
Nylon .0385 44360
Gut .0469 52000
FC .0562 60000How they sound and how they behave in one’s hands is a different issue. Yes they are higher density and therefore tension that gun but UI have to wonder why ANYONE would just swap strings without doing the trivial math to maintain equivalent tension?
I have heard purests say the only old growth spruce will do for the SB on a quality instrument wood and that the only way to play a clarsach is if it was hand carved from a bog willow. I have also heard purest say that only Salvedo style ( what ever that is!) will work.
Try playing Salzedo style some time on a clarsach or Paraguayan. But I digress.
Sorry but I really really get annoyed when I read one sided viewpoints from the pedal world that start from this premise: pedal harps are the epitome.
Nope, the end and a sorry one IMO. more machine than instrument – much as I admire you who play them! But I challenge anyone on this forum to design and build a double, triple or a cross who will then say “One thing is better than anything else.”
You cannot compare one style of design with another without understanding that design. A pedal harp is not more comparable to a South American harp than an Appalalachian dulcimer is to a violin.
Sorry if I affront.
Biagio
