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“How limiting is it to have levers only on FCB?”
I guess that has a lot of “depends” in the answer, LOL. What the purpose is for the small harp, what kind of music you intend to play, how happy you are with transposing,how creative you are about faking accidentals….
FCB levers are pretty typical for Celtic music where the favored keys are C D F and their related minors. Much of that music though is modal so the issue of “keys” gets a bit tricky. For example, “Baloo Baleree” aka Skye Lullaby (granted a very simple tune) may be played in Ionian, Lydian or Mixylodian.
Sometimes you can get away with playing a blocked second or a fourth in lieu of a lever change that is too fast, (C C# C for instance)though the harp police will arrest you if you do that in public.
I usually suggest that people get the minimum they need on a small harp for what they play, but insist that the levers be Truitts. Sure, they cost more than Lovelands, but it is very easy to mount more later if you wish.
If you can afford complete levers that is of course the most flexible. Many tune to Eb with that. Others tune to C and if they want to play in a flat key just raise all the levers except the flats. Now you are a half step high so don’t do that if you play with someone else, but alone that lets you play in ANY key.
Sure it’s nice to have a big range; on the other hand you can make some pretty good music with the creative use of ornaments and RH chords.
Best wishes,
Biagio
I suppose you could always ask him. There is a sort of cultish attitude among some wire harpers and builders, insisting on hollowed out boxes, narrow spacing, and doubled Gs (the “sisters”). OK if that is what one wants but I really don’t get it from a practical standpoint.
To me that is akin to people insisting that gut strings and sitka spruce boards are the only acceptable ways to make any non-wire harp. Maybe for large ones, but both are a waste of money as far as I am concerned in a lap harp unless the SB is quite wide and tension quite high. That is not a fun thing to play on one’s lap however:-)
Several fine makers whom I know do their wire harps with three part construction and they sound just great and cost less than with all that carving. James Skeen (Folc Harps) comes to mind.
I just recalled that a friend is selling her Triplett 22 string Zephyr. Here’s the ad….I don’t know how flexible Mi-Young is on price (or if she still has it) nor what shipping and VAT would be. I do know that it can be re strung with wire:
http://www.reigningharps.com/harps_for_sale.htm
Best wishes,
Biagio
John, two groups with wide membership are the Yahoo! Harplist and Virtual Harp Circle – both have many members who are therapeutic musicians. I would suggest joining one or both and asking the same questions there: you may find that you do not need to create a new forum, or you may find “leads” to more specialized forums. Both are “restricted” which means you must state in your application to join why you want to. That is to weed out scammers and such sorts.
I am an owner/moderator of the VHC which is smaller than the HL – we have about 500 members who play every conceivable kind of harp. The VHC is mainly intended for beginners but at this point we have a lot of professionals too – several active in the areas you are interested in. I’d be happy to “approve” you (be sure to remind me who you are if you apply). Here is the web address for the VHC:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/virtualharpcircle/info
Biagio
We’ve been talking mostly about wire strungs but I keep wondering whether a small nylon double strung might not be a good choice for you. There are several good ones out there – from most to least expensive Rees, Blevins and Stoney End. The latter even is available as a kit. You can do a lot with a double that you cannot do on anything else – yet you can play it just as you would a single if you want.
Just thinking….
Biagio
Steel strings (which I guess is what he means by guitar strings) are a very different proposition from brass or bronze. Their physical characteristics are such that one can substitute one for one from nylon to steel (smaller diameters of course). They also cost less and are more readily available than brass or bronze.
I and many wire harp afficionados don’t like steel as we think the tone is too tinkly, but don’t be swayed by that bias. Plenty of people who regularly play nylon or gut like a small harp that can be steel OR nylon.
Just be aware that they do not sound at all like brass or bronze. Steel though is more suited to bridge pins, you can use regular levers (with care), and the SB is less of an issue. You can also restring with nylon if you wish without altering the range, which you can’t do with nylon to brass/bronze.
I can’t comment further without knowing the specifics but will say I would not like that A to G range very much – it seems an odd choice. Would that be the A an octave below middle C would be my first question? If the A above that, not too interested if it were me.
Hope that is helpful!
Best wishes,
Biagio
There are physical changes that all of us can expect sooner or later; when they become noticeable of course will differ in timing and degree. Most frequently cited among friends (and for myself) are a decrease in flexibility, ability to concentrate for extended periods, joint problems particularly in the hands, arms and lower back, and eyesight. Assuming there is nothing abnormal going on we can find ways to cope with all of these: attention to diet, moderate exercise (Tai Chi is particularly good), shorter practice sessions, reading glasses if that helps, etc.
Other things may be less physically related. We may find that it no longer makes financial sense to live in a house with all the upkeep that entails and that may mean downsizing our harps as well. Perhaps long drives are less and less appealing so we may cut back on gigs, circles, and retreats. We may decide that playing and maintaining a pedal harp is more than we wish to spend time and money on, ergo transition to a lever harp (assuming we are not professional performers).
For myself personally: I got into harping first as a craftsman – now ten+ years later am not interested in making any more harps and have more than I want or need so am selling some of them. I started lessons on pedal harp and soon after decided to downsize, so transitioned quickly to lever and wire. One or possibly two heart attacks have slowed me down; some of the fire has gone out of my life and with it ambition. My lower back aches so I keep my practice session to about 20 minutes at a time with stretching between sessions. Wrt concentration, 20 minutes is about as long as I can concentrate anyway LOL!
The plus side to all of this: I have something that brings me joy and takes the place of things I can no longer or no longer want to do.
Biagio
Very interesting thread, all. I’ve refrained from commenting, not being a pedalist, but will offer a couple of thoughts for what they’re worth.
-One must be patient in the first two or three octaves with new strings, whether they are gut or anything else. As the lower ones come up to tension that will also affect the higher ones. So you may have less initial breakage by sneaking up on reaching the fundamental over several weeks while the harp settles in.
-Toggles: the string rib line is for all intents and purposes acoustically dead. Sound radiates out from the ribs along the grain lines but at the rib itself you have compression on one side and tension on the other: little or no effect on sound. Perhaps that addresses Charles’ comment. I find that a stiff piece of leather shoe lace works quite well to obviate buzzes. There is one disadvantages however: thinner strings will take longer to hold tune as they gradually squeeze the material. On the other hand (the right one perhaps) you will never hear them buzz and leather is a lot less slippery than gut when tying the knot.
Happy harping all,
Biagio
I can’t seem to be able to post the Bard chart but no matter; if you want to see that email me and I’ll send it off list.
Phooey!
Biagio
Ah, I get it now! Yes you can probably squeeze in two or even three strings on a harp designed with concert harp spacing – which many lever harps are. String spacing is one of those things that is not standardized and many builders have their own preferences so when players discuss they usually consider the width across an octave. As strings get progressively thicker toward the bass the spacing gets larger too. With wire harps we don’t have to deal with that issue very much if at all. Vibrating length is a different issue.
About the curved pillar – those are stronger than straight ones and also give the vibrating strings more free air to sound. That is an issue since the air in front of a harp vibrates too. Part of the reason for raises as well, though many don’t realize that little factoid.
For a wire harp to sound good you want the string’s tensile strength to be at or above about 50% of maximum and preferably closer to 70% or more, which is higher than you find on most lever harps. So one must take that into account (which is why you have to drop the range a good bit and even then a conversion just may not work out).
Designing a wire harp: You need to understand string theory and the physical parameters of the alloys you are using, just as you must for nylon, gut KF etc. And you need to understand a wire harp’s little quirks and oddities: no bridge pins (usually) how much to offset the neck if at all, edge gluing and strengthening the hardwood board if used and how to orient the grain….these are all things that a competent harp maker will understand even if he has not done one before.
Woods: our commonly used domestic woods are maple, walnut, elm, and cherry which should be pretty much what is found in Britain – we don’t have much domestic yew. Those imported hardwoods are seen more often these days, as they come from sustainable forestry in Africa or South America- so we’re more or less on the same wave length here.
All harps with standard tapered pegs will probably need some TLC up there eventually. Oxidation aside, the tapered hole will eventually get a bit out of true; and the fibers compressed, making the hole too smooth to hold well. That may well be your Ardival’s “problem”. It’s an easy fix but most players don’t want to do it themselves so they send it to a technician. Same for pedalists – it’s part of the regulation process. I don’t know how much they charge just for that over your way. Over here just removing the strings and cleaning the pegs, re-boring the holes a little, re-stringing and tuning would probably run several hundred US dollars – mostly for new strings and maybe two or three hours of labor. Ouch! Do-it-yourselfers just need patience and the correct size tapered reamer, light sand paper etc.
Aside: I urge all lever harpers on every occasion that presents itself to buy David Kolacny’s little book “Troubleshooting Your Lever Harp”, available from Kolacny Music and most good lever harp outlets.
To give you an idea of a very nice wire string chart I can send you the Caswell 27 string Bard with bronze (copying and pasting did not work which I guess is why the first post did not show up). Total tension is 804 lbs./30 lbs average. Strung with yellow brass you can get it down about 100 lbs. total/26 average and it will still sound good. If you consider a custom make this would be a good starting point for your luthier. He could just delete a few for a smaller range (I’d delete in the treble personally, keeping that low C). This one is a little over 32″ tall and 27″ wide with “modified standard spacing”. Which translates to wider than a historical one but narrower than concert.
Chris made the SB quite wide and it’s all cherry so that is a heavy harp, perhaps 14-15 lbs. It could stand to lose some weight – with fewer strings, yellow brass, reduced SB width and aircraft birch SB one could probably get it down to around 10 lbs. or so.
Best wishes,
Biagio
Assuming the design overall is good, how well a harp holds tune largely depends on whether the pegs have a tendency to slip and whether the SB reaches stability (some never seem to, even well known individuals – wood grain differs from one tree to the next). There is something of an art to tuning a wire harp since they are so sensitive to a slight turn compared to nylon/gut. It may be that you simply need to turn the strings on the Ardival back a small amount, then press the pegs deeper into the wood, then tune back up. I have to do that a lot on some harps, less on others. Softer woods such as walnut don’t grip as well as harder ones like maple – another factor.
No, you usually cannot add more strings to a pre-existing design – that means taking the thing apart and usually the neck is not long enough (especially if the added strings are in the bass).
A larger diameter peg of course has more surface area, hence more friction and holding power than a smaller one. “Hardwood” just means a deciduous tree rather than a conifer. Leaving that distinction aside, cherry is is pretty hard, about half way between maple and walnut on the Janka scale.
Whether you make it all out of one species or several depends on what you want – an all cherry wire strung sounds wonderful – for example the Caswell Bard. I personally like cherry because it is relatively inexpensive (atho a bit more than hard maple), easy to find, and somewhat easier to work. Koa and bubinga, on the other hand, are lovely but expensive and dull your tools fast – although I realize that’s not your concern ha ha.
Given all that we have discussed and what I guess, if you asked me to build one for you (please don’t though, I’m not doing any more ha ha) here’s what I would suggest: maple or cherry 22-26 strings standard spacing, #5 pegs, about 30″ tall. That would weigh about 12 lbs +/- (those pegs are heavy). A lighter, much less expensive harp I would make with Baltic birch ply body and neck-pillar, aircraft birch SB and zither pegs. Or use maple for the sides and the rest as stated.
I might have some hesitation about those zither pegs and might use instead Dusty Strings grooved pegs. Those go all the way through the neck unlike zither pegs but are not tapered by grooved like the zither ones. So in theory you have the best of all worlds. They can be a bit “sticky” in really hard solid woods for a wire strung, but are just fine with Baltic birch or maple ply.
A “best guess” for material costs one would expect in the US: about $300-$350 for the all cherry one and $150-$200 for the ply one. I made a bunch of double strung nylon 23s with that Baltic birch/aircraft laminate approach; it could probably be adapted to wire though I haven’t thought about it until now.
The bottom line here IMHO: a good luthier will make what you want and do it well if you are clear about exactly what you want – weight, size, cost, etc. – and leave it to him to recommend details such as type of wood.
Fun, isn’t it?
Biagio
The woods you mentioned are all good to use though I must be careful about making a broad statement based on generic names rather than scientific species. For example there are many “elms” and “maples”; “sycamore” in the US is a totally different genera than “sycamore” in the UK.
Let’s separate the wood used in the box and board from that used for the neck and pillar (though you could use the same for both of course). If you asked Paul Dooley – a REAL expert – he would tell you that a willow box with hornbeam pillar and neck is the only way to go. You want strength for the latter that will grip the pegs, and strong interwoven fibers in the former – willow of course being a “soft hardwood”. Equivalents to willow are lyme and some poplars.
As a generality the harder the SB wood the brighter the tone. From brightest to less bright: rock maple, hard elm, cherry, black walnut as an example. A perfectly adequate one can be made entirely from Baltic birch plywood although it will not sound as good as – for example – an all hard maple one.
A friend has a converted Zephyr and it sounds OK, though the strings are a bit looser than desirable for wire. I’ve converted a few Limericks and they sound great though they would be a lot better and more comfortable to play with thinner maple sides.
Other than the 19 (narrow) I’ve made mine with “standard” spacing since I also play a nylon/gut strung and don’t want to alter technique too much. With a generic design, you might as well do a completely new one if you don’t like the generic spacing. The strings meet the board at a predetermined angle which likewise determines where the pegs (or pins) will be. Change one and you change everything else.
When doing the design the first thing we do is to decide on the string chart, given approximate size and weight – everything else flows from that. Let me be honest and say that most experienced designers take an already successful design – their own or another’s – and then tweak it for customization. So really the string design come first and everything else is just a matter of drafting, cutting, shaping and gluing. Seriously, a good harp is not that hard to make if you study other harps – which is what we all do!
If the spacing is wide enough you can use larger #5 pegs which hold tune better than #4s. As you already know, it does not take much of a turn to change the frequency with wire:-) You can also get away with zither pegs, if the tension is not too high. My late friend, Chris Caswell, advocated using a split neck with guitar tuners for a small harp – those hold tune best of all.
Best wishes,
Biagio
Hmmm…well I must say that the Callan looks lovely and yes, some small nylon/gut harps can be good with wire if you drop the range about 5 steps or more. The Triplett Zephyr is one such, so too the Music Maker Limerick. The issues one runs into are the bridge pins (not a good idea on a wire strung – they can kink the strings) and the soundboard is TOO responsive with softwood. With the very long ring that wire with a spruce or cedar board will echo FOREVER!! Which is why we use a thicker hardwood board.
This next is a tad heretical but I’ll go ahead and write it. High density laminate (aka aircraft grade Finnish birch) is a good though not great substitute for hardwood. That is what I have on my little 19 and I love it for just kicking back an noodling around.
If you are falling in love with wire strungs, why not ask Mr. Clallan to make you a custom one with hardwood or aircraft laminate board, and omitting the bridge pins? The material for something like that is not terribly expensive and labor is not either. I think my 19 took about 2 weeks to make, most of which was just waiting for glue and finish to dry; I’d guess that all told materials cost about $200. Most of that was the cost of strings since I had to buy WAY more than the little harp needed LOL.
Or of course keep the Ardival – they are just lovely harps! One final possibility would be to buy a Limerick kit and tell them you want tuning pegs put where the bridge pins would normally go ( and preferably have them drill and ream for #4 pegs). Those folks are very accommodating and I can send you the appropriate string chart (bronze or brass).
I do find the Limerick a bit heavier than necessary – the sides are 3/4″ thick – but it’s still not a bad little harp and 26 strings (“standard” spacing). The range on that modification is G an octave below middle C (G2) up to a D, yellow brass (or bronze) with the lowest two strings red brass.
Best wishes,
Biagio
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You have raised some good points Elletaria, particularly on wire harp technique. Yes indeed, playing with the same force as you would on a high tension gut or nylon strung harp is, one might say, “contra indicated.” You need only graze the strings lightly to bring out its beautiful sound; too much force not only sounds muddy but, as you say, can pull it out of tune. Cynthia Cathcart has a series of introductory videos that are worth watching.
Some other potential drawbacks worth mentioning: if the back is closed (no access holes) changing a broken string requires using a metal toggle ( “zoggle”) and pushing that through from the front. Typically you have to lay the harp flat or make a stable stand when not in use. Wire is expensive relative to gut and nylon and sources are not as available (in Scotland you are fortunate to be near Malcolm Rose). It can take some jiggling around to get a new string lined up with the others. Finally you have to learn some damping techniques that are not as common on gut/nylon. You probably know all this already of course.
Thank you for asking – few have expressed any interest in mine so far. One (a professional in California) wanted a larger range; a young girl loved it but I told her father better to begin learning on a nylon strung harp and steered them to a Kortier Wren Faire. And so it goes.
In all honesty I think that you might not find it to your liking: it is too tall to be played comfortably while seated (at least for me – I’m 5’8″) and I put the strings on the right hand side which would require getting used to. I’m not entirely happy with the ring of the upper three strings either (something I should address – whoops). But I’m delighted that you like it!
I do wonder however if a small double strung might be to your liking. Unfortunately not many people make those either but there are some ranging from “Good” to “Excellent”. In the “Good” column – Blevins and Stoney End, in “Excellent” Rees. All of these have dealers in the EU. A particular favorite around here is the Blevins Cameo 46. All three do turn up in the used market from time to time.
Best wishes,
Biagio
You can do that sort of thing very easily on a double strung….but that’s just one more harp and I know you’re not too interested in that:-)
Best wishes,
Biagio
You see to have most of the bases covered Jon. A few other things to look at:
-Is the column/pillar reasonably straight?
-Does the neck-column joint show any signs of separation?
-When were the strings last changed?
It is not uncommon to see some leaning (first two items) but there should not be any more deflection than 1/4″ from the vertical at the most.
Best wishes,
Biagio
