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Hi Brook,
IMO the upgraded bass strings make a significant difference, as the standard ones are too loose for a full volume and resonance. I don’t think that the wood choice has much effect on these, given the fairly light overall tension and narrow box; more of an aesthetic choice. So in your shoes I would order the straight-up maple Fullsicle but with the string upgrade.
Best wishes,
BiagioI do have experience with all three to a greater or lesser degree. Please take these remarks as subjective as like all people I have my own preferences for tone, versatility etc.
Musicmakers: my favorite among kit makers; the larger harps are pretty easy to put together even if you have no woodworking experience. I prefer the Voyageur most of all although it is heavier than some others at 24 lbs./11kg. Beautifully designed and easily upgraded to concert level by purchasing a solid wood soundboard and making a slight modification to the pillar foot.*
Stoney End: Gary has been making harps for a long time with one standard design, which is lighter than many others. That is because he uses plywood glued to hardwood “L” wood strips for the box sides, rather than solid wood like the Musicmakers and Cambria. Personally I find that more difficult to put together for an amateur woodworker than the other two. Like the Musicmakers he uses a high density laminate board – it too could be replaced with a solid wood board*.
Cambria: Glenn has also been around for a long time and mostly specializes in custom designs; IMO his kits are a sideline. The board is solid wood. I have seen few in person but several people I know have had some difficulty putting them together – inaccurately placed dowel holes being the most common “complaint”. That can be dealt with by using an epoxy resin glue but to my mind that falls more in the line of repair than construction.
*The pillar foot projects through the SB with the standard laminate board. If you replace it with a spruce or other wood board you have to chop that projection off and bolt the foot through the board and string rib, rather than screws from beneath. A solid wood board may be purchased from Betty Truitt (Dragon Whispers) or Rick Kemper (Sligo Harps). Look at what they offer before deciding – Rick offers more options (veneer or no veneer, spruce or cedar, add string rib or not, etc.) but both are excellent, experienced harp makers.
Have fun and best wishes,
Biagio“Biagio, you say that it depends on age, is it that a newish harp will change more than an old one, or the other way round? Some of the semitones were never that precise to begin with, but it’s got worse lately. Is there any way to tell that the nylon has stretched too much?”
Veronika, the stress on your FH34 is around 800 lbs and wood is elastic; which means that over time the neck will flex down and the board up. This is true for any harp; usually they stabilize somewhat after a year or so but that flexing will continue for it’s life.
It depends on how much you play but in general: if you find you have to tune the open strings a lot that is one suggestion that the strings are stretching too much. If they sound dull in the mid and/or excessively tinkly in the treble that is another.
I’ve had the same strings on one harp for almost five years and it still sounds fine. On another I changed them out after two. So I’d say use your judgment. As Charles says, they are not all that expensive. I’d just caution not to take them all off at once: just go string by string, tuning as you go.
We pretty much agree here Charles and yes, if a string is changed it should be allowed to stretch in before adjusting the lever.
You have a choice of nylon or gut on the FH34, I’d assume this one has nylon. Whatever…those bass strings have (probably) the greatest effect of any to the overall sound. This is due both to the fact that they have the highest tension placed on the board and it’s vibrating width, and to the (related) sympathetic vibrations. I can’t see replacing all the strings solely because the bass changes improve the sound, but up to the player.
Some people, especially those with high tension gut harps replace strings about every year, I’m told. others with nylon only when it sounds as if they need it. In this case, if the semitones are off elsewhere, that may indicate that the nylon has stretched too much, or it may simply have to do with the neck and board adjusting – that depends on the age, largely.
I’d bet that everyone is tired of hearing me repeat this but what the heck: every lever harper should know how to adjust their levers. Sometimes just moving the bridge pins in or out is all that is required. Otherwise, loosening the screw and sliding the lever up or down a bit may be required. None of this is difficult; if in doubt buy David Kolacny’s booklet “Troubleshooting Your Lever Harp” – heck buy it anyway. You would not buy a car without an operating manual would you?
I do not think it is a good idea to change all the strings at once for two reasons:
1) it is pretty expensive and 2) that stresses the sound board unnecessarily.Regulation usually involves changing any strings that need to be changed at the same time you or the technician are adjusting the levers. So I’d do it then, as needed, not all at once.
A person may plateau for several reasons: frustration from lack of progress (which may be the case here due to limited practice); boredom; little outside stimulus to name a few I’ve encountered. Several ways to revive interest that have worked for me:
Set a definite schedule and let nothing interfere, even if only 1/2 hour
Vary the practice routines from day to day
Lay the basis for improvization
Listen to and/or watch stimulating performances
Take a break from the ordinary, try to master new technique(s)One personal example…I branched out to South American tunes and techniques for a time which really renewed my interest.
Hope that helps,
Biagio“You will either play a lot of harps before you purchase, or you will buy and sell a lot of harps looking for the “right” one. ”
HaHa! And not just that for a beginner: I know of one professional who goes through at least one harp/year; she currently has three. Most harpists I kow whether professional or dedicated amateur have at least that number and often more.
Obviously it is good that Sean is doing his research and no one wants to invest the large amount – the price of a new car these days – for something they will be disappointed in.
On the other hand, we all recognize that there will be several years of study just on establishing good technique. For someone with deep pockets and who is definitely committed perhaps it is worth buying just the “right one” at first.
If however financials are at all constrained it may be better to a) buy a pre-pedal harp such as the Prelude and b) take lessons from a pedal harp teacher who will lend her/his pedal harp while the student is learning.
There is always a market for good harps when the student is ready to graduate to a more expensive instrument.
That is indeed true Gretchen; vibrating string lengths are pretty standard for modern concert harps, although there may be a few differences in material here and there. So the main differences between models will lie with the sound board material, width and tapering, depth of the box and where the access holes are placed (ignoring the action of course). Still understanding exactly what that means would be a good thing for any harpist, methinks.
As all have said, there is no substitute for trying each out personally and the guidance of experienced people. Be that as it may, Sean expressed an interest in research and that too is an excellent idea.
Personally I rarely suggest one harp versus another anymore, or comment specifically on design. Rather, I suggest that that a prospective player identify artists whose music they like and what harp they play. Sure technique will make a difference but comparing, for example, Frank Voltz with Catrin Finch, or Harper Tasche with Kim Robertson might be helpful.
” I just wish this kind of information was made plain and available…”
It would certainly be a good idea and I applaud your interest. This sort of information really is not definitive though, and it does not much matter whether the harp is a pedal, lever, or indeed wire strung. The essential elements include sound board material and design, sound box ditto, string materials and vibrating length. These all work in concert (or not) – the most that most manufacturers will probably say will likely be some generalities.
I don’t know what is available for concert harps, being a lever harp maker and player. You might start there anyway though. Musicmakers is the archivist for the Folk Harp Journal and has compiled an extensive collection of essays on CD in The Science of Harp Making. The harpmakers Yahoo! forum also has archived discussions; Rick Kemper of Sligo Harps has a pretty good discussion of mechanical properties and string design, although he does not get into wound strings. Chris Waltham who is also a physicist has some archived discussions available in Questia that are very interesting although you would have to pay a fee. The wirestrungharp has some excellent discussions of the more esoteric aspects and they are applicable really to any kind of harp.
Other sources escape me at the moment, but bottom line is that you may wish to approach the subject as if you were interested in becoming a harp maker. I wish more people did!
Best wishes,
BiagioI’m sorry David, but it is doubtful that you would be able to get very much for the harp in it’s current condition; certainly not if you tried to sell it via the internet.
I’m sure it COULD be repaired so in your shoes I’d either hang on to it or give it away to – for example – Lisa Lynne’s harp healing program. Lisa knows many luthiers in the SF Bay area. Here’s her website:
https://lisalynne.com/As for a replacement harp well that’s a toughie if a Ravenna is out of your price range and you really want a 4+ octave instrument. If you could afford more then aside from the Ravenna Rees has a few very nice harps on sale unless they have been snapped up by now. Or you could tackle one of Music Maker’s kits.
Very sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but “it is what it is.”
Best wishes,
BiagioI don’t know exactly how Dwight made these, but I do know that the neck and pillar were essentially an “inner mold” of light weight material which was then layered with carbon fiber. So I think he left out something i.e. after repairing the crack (probably pine or poplar) add carbon fiber patch over the repair.
As Carl suggests, I would be very uncomfortable about the integrity of doing that – better to just make a new (solid) n/p assembly out of solid wood. That would seem to me be easier and more reliable.
I have repaired a few cracked necks – it can be done in some instances – but it is something that I would not advise the average player to try.
Referring to earlier remarks: if one goes with the ply approach, it is best to reinforce it – the easiest way is with a fairly long patch of solid wood on the LH side. Rees does that even though they use solid wood for the neck and pillar, for example.
True enough Carl, depending on the tension and type of laminate of course. The Reve was designed as light tension and light weight but it would be wise to reinforce the column anyway. Ply can take a lot of force at the neck but will bend over time across the column laminations; that was a common problem with early Troubadours.
Dave Thormahlen uses piano pin block with solid wood laminations on both sides. David Kortier used to make wire strungs with five overlapping cherry lams – those are both incredibly strong.
There are many ways to build a neck-pillar joint besides mortise-tenon or dowels, with modern materials…. as I am sure you know but other readers may not.
I agree with Carl; it would be much easier to replace the entire neck/column assembly than to attempt a repair. You would have to remove it entirely anyway so use it as a template for a new assembly.
The easiest replacement would be to construct the new assembly as one piece by gluing together two 3/4″ thick “Ls” out of Baltic birch or maple ply, then cutting the finished shape out with a band saw, drilling peg and pin holes, etc.
That is actually quite easy to do, and is the way many fine harps are made today, believe it or not. Depending on the overall tension some may add a stiffener of some sort to the column. That may take the form of a 1/4″ thick fore pillar or simply a strip of carbon fiber.
Biagio
I’m more than happy for people, especially children to play around; how and where and what harp depends on the milieu. If it is a large public setting such as the local Highland Games I’ll take along one or two especially for a “petting zoo”, if I have them. If not and it is a harp I value then there are a few rules:
No sticky fingers (parents should tell the kids to wash their hands first)
Always under my supervision/presence
Explain/demonstrate some basics while they’re having fun (what’s the lever for, what’s a scale, harp history, what they cost etc.)That last one has resulted in several, children and adults, buying a harp and taking lessons – and not from me, I’m not a teacher! The harp just worked it’s magic.
Hi Stardust and Evolene,
First…I’m glad that Stardust now has the Voyageur; it is one of a handful of 5 octave harps that are relatively inexpensive yet still excellent designs, and which I’d recommend when financial constraints are an issue.
On that note (haha) a good harp is not really all that expensive to buy if you can do without levers – although few offer the “no lever option.” Or build for that matter if one can follow a blue print. There is nothing tricky about it; indeed, the Voyageur can be elevated to a concert instrument by simply using a spruce sound board in place of the laminate that comes with the kit. That spruce SB will set you back only about $200 if you buy one ready made.
As my friend Rick Kemper (Sligo harps) says, “Building a good but simple harp is no more complicated than building a dog house” and several good full size plans are available. People get the idea that it is all very mathematical and you do need a string analysis program if you design it from scratch. With a plan that has all been worked out already.
If someone loves the harp sound but just wants to fool around and knows someone with a basic wood shop I often suggest they buy the plans for the Musicmakers 29 string Studio harp. In fact at least one teacher I know does that for her student rentals.
Biagio
