Differences in design between the Various 47 string concert grands

[charles-nix]

I have found that while the typical, average “Style 23” (or Salzedo, or Salvi model, or Athena, or Atlantide) may have certain characteristics, there is enough variability even within each model to overwhelm the difference when you are looking at individual instruments. And there is enough variability in the technique of harpists that you will find some best suited for you (and your music), when another harpist finds a different “best” for them.

You’re really going to have to play them in person to pick what you like and which will respond to your playing and music. You will either play a lot of harps before you purchase, or you will buy and sell a lot of harps looking for the “right” one. Traveling a long distance costs a tiny fraction of what purchasing a harp you don’t love will cost.

You may be astounded if you go to a major harp event and hear how different two or three seemingly identical new harps sound.

[balfour-knight]

Sean, you are on the right track about the Camacs. The Big Blue is an Atlantide with the pick-up system already installed, and of course it is blue or some other color. The model with the extended soundboard sounds large and full like the Atlantide without using the amplification, but the one with straight soundboard needs the amplification to equal the volume of the Atlantide without amp. The extended soundboard does much more for the tone of the harp than just making it louder, however. It makes the bass and middle sections of the harp ring out much fuller in tone and beautiful vibration, much like a large soundboard in a piano. The high treble also benefits–on my Atlantide it is sparkly and bright.

You could not go wrong on an Athena Ex as your first pedal harp, and the expense is about half that of the Atlantide. As you become a professional, you could trade that in on an Atlantide or other model that you liked the look and sound of. The Canoppee is a really nice sounding model if you like all the inlaid decoration, which makes it an expensive harp. Also, even with these price differences, Camac states that they do not make any “student” harps, they are all professional harps in different sizes. The Clio model can even be ordered as an expensive Gold harp!

The only thing I can tell you about the differences between the Athena and the Atlantide is that the latter is supposed to be made of the most choice wood that is available, particularly the soundboard, and probably the degree of hand finishing is held to a higher standard than on the cheaper models. I know that pianos which undergo more hand voicing, finishing, regulating, etc. are higher priced and live up to a more professional standard. I would love to hear other opinions about this and other harp builders. Keep the replies coming!

Cheers to all of you,
Balfour

[Biagio]

“You will either play a lot of harps before you purchase, or you will buy and sell a lot of harps looking for the “right” one. ”

HaHa! And not just that for a beginner: I know of one professional who goes through at least one harp/year; she currently has three. Most harpists I kow whether professional or dedicated amateur have at least that number and often more.

Obviously it is good that Sean is doing his research and no one wants to invest the large amount – the price of a new car these days – for something they will be disappointed in.

On the other hand, we all recognize that there will be several years of study just on establishing good technique. For someone with deep pockets and who is definitely committed perhaps it is worth buying just the “right one” at first.

If however financials are at all constrained it may be better to a) buy a pre-pedal harp such as the Prelude and b) take lessons from a pedal harp teacher who will lend her/his pedal harp while the student is learning.

There is always a market for good harps when the student is ready to graduate to a more expensive instrument.

[Gretchen Cover]

Sean, with your height you should get a concert grand harp. That narrows your choice. You don’t say where you live, but I suggest you join the local chapter of the American Harp Society. Through that you may be able to try more harps and get more opinions. I would further suggest you call Lyon and Healy in Chicago to find out when they have the most harps in. Harps are generally not shipped during very cold or hot weather so I presume Spring and Fall is when inventory is best. I would consider taking vacation time to try the harps yourself. I flew from Florida to Santa Monica to test harps rather than make a pricey mistake. It turned out the then sales manager and I had the exact same taste in harps so I bought my other two harps sight unseen upon her recommendation.

Additionally, if it is possible, rent a concert grand harp for a while to get familiar with it. You would then be better prepared to buy one.

[balfour-knight]

Gretchen, that is excellent advice. Sean, I would also like to know where you live. I am in western NC if that would be any help to you!

[sroreilly]

To Balfour: thank you for the offer. I live in the northeast of the US.

To Gretchen: I will look into the American harp society. thank you for the tip! Also, I have been in contact with Lyon and Healy; for my music, I believe that having and electroacoustic harp makes a lot of sense since I already have guitar FX pedals and in general the flexibility would come in handy. I have used transducer type pickups on my pianos and never been too happy so the single string pickup idea is really appealing to me. I have actually been “refurbishing” an old Wurlitzer and it is currently playable (I have light gauge pedal gut strings and there is very little if any pulling of the soundboard for those worried), but I am still eliminating buzzing discs and sticking pedals. Even when fixed, I will want a more modern instrument as I would worry about dragging a 100 year old harp anywhere. …. ummm back to my original point though, L+H has two style 3000s and a salvi rainbow in stock which seem to fit my rather narrow demands so I hope to visit within the month. Locally, I can only find a camac big blue without the extended soundboard, which for me, is a non-starter.

[Saul Davis Zlatkovski]

Wurlitzer harps are known as sturdy, if you are looking at a second-hand harp, and I think using pick-ups is preferable to having them built in, but I’m not expert on that, and I hate colored harps.

[Gretchen Cover]

Sean, you may want to check out Carl Swanson in Boston. He is a highly regarded harp maker and harp restorer, wwww.swansonharp.org. The other harp restorer is Howard Bryan in Virginia, http://www.oldharpsmadeyoung.com. Both are experts about the Wurlitzer harps.

[sroreilly]

Thanks again Gretchen! At the moment I don’t want to have a full blow restoration on the Wurlitzer. It has a distinct, dark kind of sound that I really like but all things considered I would like to keep it as a specialty recording instrument. With all the gold and everything, even with a structural kind of durability, there still is a sort of delicate quality to it.

To Saul: I think I am really interested in the pickup systems where each string has its own pickup. This system is more similar to an electric guitar. The pickups you install afterwards are called transducers: the work by picking up the vibrations of the soundboard, and while they can produce a nice tone, I don’t think they produce sounds that are as malleable by pedals and EFX systems… I think by nature they are also more prone to feeding back.

[billooms]

As others have said, I would encourage you to make the small investment to travel to where there are harps to play. I combined a vacation to Chicago (to visit family) with an opportunity to go to Lyon & Healy’s factory in Chicago.

If you choose to do the same, be sure to take the factory tour (at noon every weekday). The person who gave the tour had 40+ years of experience building harps and now restored older harps sent to L&H for repairs. He had answers to all my questions about different construction on the L&H harps as well as Salvi harps. Call ahead, of course, and make an appointment with a sales person.

I had origianlly thought that I might like the 2000CG with its excellent pickup system. However, after playing several I did not like the accoustic sound when playing alone (without pickup or amplification). I played some Chicago series and then moved on to the “professional” series (an 85CG). My wife will tell you that it only took about 3 notes to tell the difference.

After a lunch break, I played several more of the 85CG and found significant differences not only in the sound, but also the feel of the harp. (I was surprised that there was a difference in the feel when playing 3 different harps of the same model).

Travel costs are very small compared to the major investment you make when buying a big harp. Spend a bit and enjoy yourself!

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