Overplaying the instrument…

[Maria Myers]

JP,

Glad to see you here!

[carl-swanson]

I have nothing to add!

[steven-todd-miller]

Alright, here’s my 2 cents… As I’ve posted many times here before I have one of each- a Lyon & Healy and a Salvi. It’s totally true. I love my Apollo, but I did have to replace the 1st – 3rd octave with nylon for the very reasons Carl mentioned. It was so tight my hands hurt when I practiced and performed for more than an hour. And yes– looking back I can say that I did have to overplay to compensate for the stiffness in the upper octaves. When I switched strings it solved all of those problems. I’d buy another one in a minute. I practice on the Salvi so when I switch to the L&H 15 it is a shock. I have to put out so much less energy to make it sing. Another harpist in my city summed it up well- she said that you just have to breathe on the 15 and it will play! BUT to agree with JP, I like it that way! I love them both!

[jennifer-buehler]

As long as we’re being provocative, how much of a role does technique or how technique is taught play in that?

[carl-swanson]

Jennifer- I was going to put this into my original post up top, but decided against it. Now, dadburnit, your question is too good to pass up.

Many of the proponents of a certain school of playing(which I will not mention) brag that they have a ‘big sound,’ when in fact they are simply playing everything fortissimo and overplaying the instrument. These same disciples of the afore mentioned school of playing ALSO demean and denigrate anyone who does not come from that school of playing, saying “you can’t hear them.” “They don’t have any sound.” I have listened to this for over 40 years, so please, don’t even THINK of telling me I’m making this up. BTW, people from this same school of playing will tell you(again, I’ve heard this for 40 years) that if you don’t play THEIR METHOD, you simply cannot get an orchestra job. Apparently the orchestras don’t know this, because since the early 1980’s, virtually every orchestra position that has come up has gone to someone NOT from this school of playing. But I’m digressing…

The problem is that if you overpull all the time, and play everything fortissimo, then that’s all you can do. You have no idea how to keep your sound and project at a lower dynamic level. And if you play a tightly strung instrument that has poor sound, you are limited to overpulling just to get any sound out at all. Stated another way, the more resonant the instrument, and the easier it is to play, the more color and dynamic variation you have available to you. The most resonant instrument I have ever played, bar none, is my antique Erard that I bought about 3 years ago. You just barely touch it and it sings. But many harpists, particularly of the afore mentioned ‘method’ would yank and twang on this instrument, for the reasons mentioned above.

Years ago I was at a harp conference and wandered into the exhibit room during a slow period when not too many people where there. As I entered the room, filled with harps and harp makers, I heard Ravel’s Introduction and Allegro completely enveloping the room. The sound was huge but not at all strident or forced. It was glorious and I looked around the room to try to see who it was that was making this magnificent sound. It was Elieen Malone trying out an instrument. Every once in a while I come across someone else who was there that day and they too remember that moment as one of the greatest sounds they have ever heard.

[Saul Davis Zlatkovski]

You’re talking about the RUSSIAN school, right, Carl? They’re the only people I’ve ever heard who play the way you describe. Tasteless playing is bad no matter what school it comes from. And there are tasteless players in every school, right?

As for amplification, a harp amplified is not a harp, it is a synthesized sound, and it is crap to my ears. A harp can NEVER be amplified in an orchestra, because the whole point of an orchestra is that it is all acoustic instruments. The conductor should have learned to balance the dynamics better from your demonstration, and to place you differently on stage, and maybe you could find a more resonant instrument, Sid. That’s my feeling. There’s no tasteful way to amplify a harp with an orchestra. When electronic instruments play with an orchestra, there is such a gap in the types of sound being produced. The speaker you use also necessarily limits the origin of the sound to its small position, where a harp radiates from a much larger space. And what if you got feedback, or spilled water or something? Fried harp and harpist sandwich!
We have been getting more European conductors in America for some time, and I think that partially explains their hiring preferences, as they have much less experience with STRONG players who can be heard. Nevertheless, Salzedo-trained harpists do get hired, despite your hints otherwise. There are other trends at work, too, where we don’t have as many strong, senior teachers at work as we used to have, but we will once again very soon, I think.

[Fearghal McCartan]

There is certainly nothing wrong with the Salvi I own. I actually tried out over a dozen L&H but kept being drawn back to the richness of the tone in the Salvis. I would have gone for an Apollo but had the chance to try out the 50th anniversary model, the Scolpita and the Arianna a few days later and fell in love with the Arianna. I have never had an issue with her and other semi prof. harpists who have used it when loaned out to orchestras and for solo performances have never had a complaint. To be honest, I was expecting Camac to appear up there!

[alexander-rider]

1. Carl this is a super thread.

2. I think every maker is capapble of making amazing harps, I have played beautiful Salvis, Camacs,LHs etc.

3. The Erard will ALWAYS be my favourite (playing Tournier on a good french Gothique is near to godliness,he KNEW those harps)

4. Saul, I love ya, but to say that European conductors aren’t used to ‘STRONG players’ (your emphasis) is utter piffle and you know it. Sorry.

But hey, there are some terrible generalisations here, everywhere, so let’s just keep it at this level sweetness, eh?

[carl-swanson]

The vast majority of conductors of American orchestras have always been European. The American born and trained conductors have always been the minority. So any suggestion that European conductors aren’t used to ‘STRONG PLAYERS’ is absurd. if the conductor is telling the harpist to dial it down, it’s because he or she is playing too loudly, not because he or she is a ‘strong player.’

[steven-todd-miller]

A great way to hear the difference between a tightly strung harp versus an older harp is listen to both Catrin Finch’s and Sylvain Blassel’s recordings of Bach’s Goldberg Variations. It really is amazing.

[Sid Humphreys]

Well Saul that’s your opinion.

[tony-morosco]

Can we PLEASE drop all the This School of Playing vs. That School of Playing snipping?

Certainly, there are people who adhere to different methods and schools of playing who are obnoxious. But many of us don’t hold any delusion of superiority due simply to what method we learned or adhere to.

However, when people insist on pointing out their ideas of the flaws and pitfalls of a system in retaliation for what someone else said it is still rather insulting to those of use who don’t hold these views. It makes no difference if you are talking French, Russian, Salzedo or what ever.

An academic discussion about the strengths and weaknesses of a method are one thing, but this always digresses into personal territory and those of us who would rather not get involved tend to get hit with the stray arrows.

There are terrible players in all the schools of playing, and fantastic players in all the schools of playing, and for many of us we just want to play to play and don’t give a fig about what school someone else either chooses or ends up in out of circumstance. The sniping back and forth isn’t necessary, and the overgeneralizations are definitely not needed.

[Maria Myers]

Saul,

Are there any major symphonies that allow amplification of a harp?

[Saul Davis Zlatkovski]

I never heard of any, but who knows? Probably in some contemporary works. I have heard many European orchestras and harpists, that is what I base my opinion on. I’ve not heard as many English harpists, mostly Osian Ellis. I do not equate capability, talent, musicality etc., with strong playing.

[brook-boddie]

Carl,

Can you tell us the harp that Eileen was playing?

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