Help! There’s grease inside the mechanism of my pedal harp!

[Harper10]

Hi everyone! I bought a pre-owned semi-grand pedal harp earlier this year from an established business specializing in new and used harps. Harp was fully rebuilt 20 years ago and was regulated by a L&H technician (provided by the harp business) before I bought it. I’ve had the instrument for a few months (can no longer return it) and noticed there are globs of grease covering the mechanism. (Photo attached.) No clicks in the mechanism of the harp. But these grease has me worried. Is the presence of grease like this normal? Will it harm my harp or the mechanism? I’m very concerned. Thank you so much!

• This topic was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by Harper10.
• This topic was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by Harper10.

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

[Harper10]

Photo 3

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

[charles-nix]

The harp mechanism is steel: rivets, linkages, shafts, etc. with a few brass parts. Yes it should be greased or oiled at all times, else it will rust and bind up.

Perhaps @carl-swanson will add some in here. Technicians differ in how much grease or oil, and where to use grease or oil. Yours has a LOT of excess grease, and I would be using oil in those linkage/rivet places (grease on the spindle bearings) but it is not dangerous or wrong, just a bit messy if you get your hand on it. You can safely wipe off the excess globs with a clean, lint-free cloth, if they will get on you, otherwise, leave it be. Do not try to get deep in the mechanism or get every bit. The moving parts need lubrication–where they move. They don’t need globs–but it won’t hurt anything.

The only concern I have looking at it is wondering who put that much on, and what they were trying to accomplish. Did they not know better? Just the way they have always done it? Or is there a slight rivet click or two that they were hushing up? In any case, there is no immediate cause for concern, nor anything to do about it.

[Harper10]

Thank you so much for your insight on this. I really appreciate it. Yes, I can’t agree more. Why did someone do this? The story from the seller is the harp spent most of its life sitting and was lightly played. So did the tech grease it up because the harp had been sitting for a while? Ugh, really hoping the seller was not dishonest and trying to hide clicks in the mechanism. 🙁 I am happy with the harp and at this time there are no issues with it.

My question is can grease on the rivets/in the mechanism really hide clicks? Would I know do you think even with all the grease? Alas! Thanks so much for sharing your insight.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by Harper10.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by Harper10.

[charles-nix]

No reason to think anyone was hiding anything. The mechanism must be lubricated. If it sat mostly for years, it probably wasn’t serviced, lubricated, or regulated on a schedule either. It may have had some tiny noises. If they go away with grease, then they weren’t very bad to begin with. And certainly, for a small enough motion in a bearing between parts, grease will certainly muffle the noise of any movement.

The excess grease is messy, but won’t hurt a thing–and it is much better than a dry action. That would wear out in short order, if you play much.

Think about it: harp actions work for decades with professionals playing hours every day, playing literature that requires constant pedal changes.

Wipe any excess grease off that you might get your hands into and ignore the rest until it starts to get dried out (8-10 years maybe). At the normal regulation and service you have done every few years, ask the technician. Opinions vary on whether to use grease or oil and where–but all metal on metal parts must have some lubrication, and either grease or oil is far, far better than none at all.

Spend your worrying about which etude to work on next 🙂

[Harper10]

You rock! Haha, next etude is right! I appreciate you putting my mind at ease. What you shared makes a lot of sense. Thank you so much! 🙂

[Harper10]

You have been so helpful and I would hate to ask, but may I have your thoughts on what might need to be done a harp that has been sitting for a long time? I have a 100-year old pedal (no clicks in mechanism) that is in good order (playable, just a twist in the neck) that has spent many years sitting before I purchased it. The pedals move smoothly and I have had no issues with the mechanism, but I have noticed it is very dry inside the mechanism. Is there anything I should do there? I don’t believe the white is mold, but the metal oxidizing (but I could be wrong). Harp is in a humidity controlled space since I got it in Feb.

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

[charles-nix]

You need to have the action looked at by a professional technician. I can tell you a few things, though. The white is corrosion. It appears to be on the brass parts, leading me to suspect it may be zinc oxide coming out of the brass alloy. I have seen that in items exposed to long-term moisture and also sometimes with gas heat.

All corrosion is abrasive. To the extent that there is corrosion inside the bearing surfaces or steel corrosion inside the rivets, every motion the action makes leads to fast wear. This is the opposite case of your greased harp.

A professional technician needs to look at the harp and either disassemble, clean, and lube, or at least get it lubricated.

Where are you located? Maybe someone on here knows a good technician near by.

[Harper10]

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I’m so grateful! This has been extremely helpful. I’ll get in touch with a tech the next time one is in my area and have him take a look. Thank you so much!

[carl-swanson]

Harp actions, as well as harp pedal mechanisms, need lubrication, and that lubrication can be in the form of oil or grease. But oil and grease function in two completely different ways and are not interchangeable. In moving metal parts, oil is used when you want it to creep into the moving metal joint that you can’t reach directly, such as the riveting of the linkage. Grease will not creep anywhere. It sits where you put it. Grease is used in places where moving parts can be reached directly and where there is pressure to squeeze it out. It is used for example in the holes in the front action plate where the spindles are tightly fit into those holes. Grease is also used in the main action blocks where the main action mechanism, which takes the movement from the pedal rod and divides it between the natural and sharp chains, is tightly fit. Grease will sit for a very long time (many years) without being squeezed out or drying out the way oil would.

The grease in your mechanism, while not doing any harm, is also not doing any good, because it cannot reach or lubricate the joint where two metal parts (the rivet and the link) are moving. It’s an idiotic and pointless attempt to lubricate the linkage. Oil would have been much better there because it would have crept into the joint where it is needed.

It would be nice if the major companies understood this. At least one of them sticks a blob of grease on each of the pedal fulcrums (where the steel pedal bar is riveted to a metal piece that is screwed into a bracket at the bottom of the harp to hold it in place. Grease down there 1) does not lubricate anything, and 2) the lack of oil where the rivet, steel pedal bar, and fulcrum all move causes this joint to seize up. I can’t tell you how many times I have had to remove those rivets and put new ones AND OIL in so that they move properly. In the case of the oil in your mechanism, the presence of grease there may actually prevent oil from reaching the moving parts if you or a technician were to oil those joints. So in that way, the grease might actually cause damage.

[Harper10]

Thank you, Charles and Carl, for taking the time to share your thoughts and insight on this. I greatly appreciate it!

Carl, what you shared makes so much sense. You confirmed my concern. I remember reading your Harp Column article about how techs need a certain kind of oil container with a long spout to get oil to the correct parts of the mechanism. Is there anything I can/should do to remedy the grease on my harp other than an action cleaning?

[carl-swanson]

I think you could try to remove as much of the grease as you can, using paper towels maybe wrapped around a table knife to try to get it off. After all, any lubricant that you can see, oil or grease, is not lubricating anything! You could also try oiling those joints that had grease on them with a thin machine oil. That might dilute the grease over time and work down into the area that really needs the lubrication.

[Harper10]

Thank you, @carl-swanson. I appreciate that. I did as you suggested and it made a huge difference. I carefully covered the soundboard and column of my harp in plastic garbage bags (I cut each bag open so there were longer lengths of plastic to cover and protect the wood.) I carefully used a butter knife and wood skewers with paper towel to remove the old grease. I quickly observed just how delicate and flexible the parts of the mechanism are and was carefully not to “force” anything when I was removing the old grease.”I would move the pedals into different keys to make it easier to get the grease out. The old grease was hard and clumpy and caked on so I’m thinking it has been on the harp for awhile. After removing as much grease as I could, I used a very thin machine oil (a bottle with a long spout) in the places were the grease was, as you suggested. I would apply the oil, let it soak in and then wipe away the oil to make sure it wouldn’t drip into my harp later. I then carefully removed the plastic covering and made some pedal changes and all is well.

Going through this process was very helpful because prior to removing the grease what would happen is small chunks of it would fall onto the soundboard of my harp. So when I would pedal I would be concerned chunks of grease might fall onto the soundboard and stain it. So removing the caked grease and adding thin oil was well worth the process.

And,Carl, you were also very right about the oil working into the areas of the grease and loosening it up. Adding a thin oil worked very well and quickly softened up the caked, crusty grease in areas of the harp. Wow, what a difference! (Best of all, my harp doesn’t smell like grease anymore!) Thank you so much for the recommendation and for your help on this. I really appreciate it.

I’ve included some before and after photos just for fun.

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

[Author]

Posts