Future harpest who's blind.

[Biagio]

Celticknot,

I think you will like the FH34 if that is what you decide. I have the case for it, which fits my (rather large) 26 and will fit the 32 string wire harp (if I ever get around to making it LOL). Pretty awkward at first when it’s new, at least for me. The corner at the base I have trouble with but after it’s been around awhile I think it will loosen up.

Many of the people I know eventually name their harps, though not all. In this house I have the “Selchie” sisters a 34 and a 26. I’m thinking of “Gwalchmai” for the wire 26. That was the name of a tiny double strung but I gave her away so guess I can use the name again:-) For myself, the name comes to me eventually…or not.

Gwalchmai is Welsh for the may hawk; the Selchies or Silkies are Irish mythic shape shifters – seals in the water, humans on land.

I like the sea and used to do raptor rescue, what can I say:-)

Please be sure to let us all know what you decide, this is a fun conversation!

Biagio

[Biagio]

Hi Balfour and Celticknot,

So…I got curious about what Dusty is doing these days and went over to look at the FH34. Very cool: you now have a choice of all nylon down to the transition range OR nylon for the first 5 treble strings, then gut for 2 1/2 octaves (and back to the wound strings lower down).

Some time ago I asked Sue Mooers about whether they would ever start stringing with fluorocarbon or gut and the answer was “No, not for now.” So now gut is an option..and since they very kindly give you the detail for gut, in principle you could substitute Savarez Alliance FC for that if you wanted to.

The Ravenna 34 uses the same strings as the FH34 for the first three octaves; I’d guess that below that they’re lower tension on the Ravenna.

Dusty is pretty conservative so one would have to clear things to keep the warranty valid, but since you two seem to like those two harps…well, it’s a thought.

By the way, the Crescendo is strung the same as the FH. Personally I don’t like that one – sort of neither Dick nor Richard (Ravenna nor FH), but some do.

Biagio

[balfour-knight]

Wow, Biagio, I wish I was close enough to Dusty Strings to just hop over and visit them! I do plan on seeing them in Asheville, NC in October for the Southeastern Harp Weekend!

[CelticKnot]

Hello, Biagio and balfour. Good points about the case being a bit stiff at first. I wasn’t worried about that so much as I was about lifting the harp out of the case, making sure I had a clear space to place the harp upright, then getting the case out of the way. Lol I’m sure I’ll manage. I just don’t want to accidentally fumble the harp while getting it out of its case.

I think I’m going to be picking something from the Heralds of Valdemar series by Mercedes Lackey to name my harp, as I really enjoy those books! 🙂

Interesting note about the strings you can get on the FH 34. I think I might stick with DS’s original configuration for the strings, as while gut sounds very nice, I’d be worried about keeping things in tune and having to fiddle with things too much. Maybe I’ll get the harp restrung after a year or so when I hope I’ll be more confident with the harp and playing it.

On a related note, I did think about the Boulivard or the Crescendo. I did get to hear the Crescendo, but I might take another listen when I go back to the shop, just in case. I heard a YouTube clip of the Boulivard and loved it, but I’m really not sure about gut. Or concert tention, either. I might just have to see if the shop has a Boulivard and check it out. How do you all think the Boulivard or Crescendo sound compares to the walnut FH 34?

Thanks,
CelticKnot

[Biagio]

I haven’t tried the Boulevard, friends, as it does not interest me but I think anything they do will be good. It’s just a question of what fits the individual, in my view. Financially less than tone and your physique.

Here’s the deal on the Crescendo. It has an aircraft grade laminate sound board like the Ravennas, but a hardwood body like the FH series and the same strings. I don’t think it sounds any better than the Ravenna, and a case is not included, and it does not have the tone of the FH. So really in my view it is a harp sold for the looks – some people really value the hard wood look enough to pay $1500 more than the Ravenna and don’t want to pay $1400 more for an FH (Ravenna $1675, Crescendo $3375 with case, FH34 $4775). The Boulevard is also a laminate board.

If done well a laminate board is very good, and more reasonable on smaller harps than a solid spruce one. But getting up where you have more bass, if you have the money for it go for the solid wood board IMO. Professionals who have played my 34 tell me it’s as good as anything out there and it has a laminate sound board, but I KNOW it would sound better with spruce instead.

So there’s my two and a half cents:-)

Biagio

[Donna O]

Biago,
I have to put my two cents in for what it’s worth. The DS FH34 is a wonderful sounding harp but it’s pricey especially if you want it for a second harp. When I wanted to purchase a second harp I intended to purchase a Ravenna but was unhappy with the tone. I finally purchased a new Crescendo 34 which I bought about 16 months ago. I got the harp, case and stand for approx 3200 with tax (Wi.) Here’s what I subjectively think ( I realize I am not tech savy). The Crescendo has far better tone than the Ravenna34 but not as good as the FH34. It projects really well and the upper registers are far better sounding than the Ravenna. I have played the Crescendo with the local orchestra and have been able to hold my own with the woodwinds. I would certainly have opted for a FH 34 budget permitting but I think you are not giving enough credit to the quality and sound of the Crescendo 34. I tried all 3 models and the FH 34 in both Walnut and Bubinga before selecting my Crescendo 34. It does look like there has been a price increase in the Crescendo since I purchased mine. Maybe I just got lucky with the harp I purchased. I do realize each harp is different.

[balfour-knight]

Well, everyone, I will also put in my two cents, for what it is worth, Ha, ha! I love my Ravenna 34, and I don’t know if it is just this particular harp (I have not sampled any other Ravenna 34s, since mine was the only one at The Atlanta Harp Center at the time I purchased it). I have found that Dusty Strings is very consistent in workmanship and quality, but this Ravenna sounded better to us than other much more expensive Dusty harps that were there at the time. I had intended to use her primarily as a gigging harp, but ended up enjoying her so much that she is much more important to me than just a small harp I can take out easily!

So, CelticKnot, if price is important, try out a Ravenna 34 before you make your final decision, and have someone do a “blind” test for you–they would play several harps without you knowing which one, and then you would pick the one you like the sound of the best. Hope this helps!

All the best,
Balfour

[CelticKnot]

Balfour, while I agree that the price of the Ravenna would be easier to swallow, I fiddled around with it some while I was in the shop, and I just didn’t like it, especially the bass strings.

I might give the Boulivard and the Crescendo. a try if they have them in the shop the next time I go.

Weirdly, I actually liked the special edition Fullsicle over the Ravenna, which I was not expecting, since things I heard on-line made me think I’d like the Ravenna over the Fullsicle. Of course, I wasn’t hearing the special edition one in the videos, so that could have something to do with it, but still.

Thanks,
CelticKnot

[Biagio]

I do agree with Donna on several points.Mainly that every harp is different – because every tree is different. Dusty’s quality control is excellent – as are Triplett and Thormahlen. And the Crescendo is a very good harp, no question there either.

Speaking now as a harp geek – the thing about laminate boards – IF you do them the right way – is that you will get great tone right out of the box. But that is where they will stay. Maybe not a bad thing if you like it as it is. A solid wood board will continue to expand over it’s life and the tone will continue to improve.

So which do you go for? This is a huge ongoing argument among harp makers – not rancorous but you’ll find pretty strong views, haha. My view for what it’s worth: in this situation if it were which of Dusty’s 34s I’d buy – well the Ravenna or the FH. But that’s just my view and how they sound in my hands. I know some around here who love their Crescendos and others who would give up their arms before parting with their bubinga FH.

I should admit to some bias as well: I have huge respect for Dusty but they are not my favorite harps. Given the chance I’d buy a Caswell Rhiannon in a heart beat and am still kicking myself for passing up on a second hand Triplett Eclipse. So again – it comes down to what you, the player, likes best.

Well, maybe only a pinky finger or two.

About a blind test…always a good idea. As a matter of interest: all of the Dusty sound samples were recorded live (i.e. no studio enhancements of any sort) and all played by the same person: Harper Tasche. He can make anything sound pretty good, but the point is that the sound samples are about as good a blind test as you can get. But that’s played in his hands, the real question is how it sounds and feels in yours.

Cheerio,
Biagio

[Biagio]

Sorry, just one more opinion on this subject – and it’s only my opinion and my ears…..

Just listened again to the DS sound samples of the Ravenna 34, FH34 in walnut, and the Crescendo. I don’t know about you, but the two with laminate boards (Ravenna and Crescendo) sound a bit tinny in the treble, the Crescendo and FH are very rich and resonant in the bass, more than the Ravenna. The FH has more sustain and more overtones than the Crescendo, however. How much that is worth to you – well, depends. “Will this be your one and only harp for the foreseeable future?” would be my personal question to myself. After some fifteen years of making harps my own answer is “Not likely!”

A “tinny” treble is pretty much a given with those laminate boards for a bunch of esoteric reasons. Some of which vary a great deal from one to another of the same model and some can be ameliorated. So it’s back to that particular harp, I’m afraid.

More pennies from the geek,
Biagio

[wil-weten]

Hi CelticKnot,
You wrote: “Weirdly, I actually liked the special edition Fullsicle over the Ravenna, which I was not expecting, since things I heard on-line made me think I’d like the Ravenna over the Fullsicle.”

Indeed, this is quite surprising. I wonder whether you heard a special edition fullsicle in maple or in cherry or walnut?

[jennifer-rehfisch]

Hi Celticknot

I met a lady called Fiona who is blind and plays the harp last year. Here is her website

http://www.inspirationalharping.co.uk/

Fiona is very friendly and will no doubt be able to give you lots of practical advice re how to find your way around the harp.

Best wishes

Jennifer

[CelticKnot]

Biagio, I actually got to try a Triplett Eclipse, and I liked it. I’d like to stay with 34 strings, though. I want this thing to be somewhat transportable. I’m still not sure if I’m going to be able to get it into our 2009 Handa Civic lol. And I just looked up the Caswell Rhiannon, and the same thing applies–too many strings. I might want more strings later on, but 34 sounds good for now.

By the way, I’ve heard a lot on Harp Column about string spacing. I have no idea what any of this means, except that some harps have narrower spacing, and some have wider spacing. What’s normal for lever/pedal harps? Is there even a standard? What would I be getting with the DS FH 34? I don’t plan on moving to a pedal harp, so I’m not too worried about anything there, but I am curious. And what’s it like playing on a concert tension verses a “normal” or lower tension, such as that on lever harps? And it seems that there’s a wide variation in tension even between models of lever harps–I’m not sure if the same holds true for variation in pedal harps, but I’d imagine so.

The only way I can describe the Ravenna–especially in the bass range–is sounding like a child’s toy stringed instrument. It just sounded too fake and sort of damp. I don’t know if I’m making any sense–I hope I am. Lol as I told the lady who was helping me in the shop–I’ve just been spoiled by the sound of the FH line. 🙂

Is sustain how long the sound of the note plays even after you’ve taken your finger off the string? Also, is overtone how … I don’t know … how complex the note sounds? I guess full might be another word? Not loud, but rich? Again, I don’t know if I’m making sense.

Lol Biagio, I have no idea if this will be my only harp. It probably will be, though, at least for several years, since we’re just starting out finance-wise and all that. We want to get a house and get our feet under us and start moving forward with our lives. I’ve felt sort of in a rut in terms of my life–I so need a job–but that’s another topic entirely.

Wil, I played a cherry Fullsicle. I was surprised I liked it as much as I did. It wouldn’t be the harp I’d get at first, but maybe if I wanted a travel harp later on down the road. Lol and Biagio is right, maybe the DS FH 34 wouldn’t be my last harp. 😀 I also played the Sharpcicle and the regular Fullsicle, and they didn’t sound too bad either. I definitely liked the cherry Fullsicle better, as the sound was a bit more punchy, but I think I’d like to hear the walnut Fullsicle before getting any Fullsicle.

jennifer, I’ll definitely check out Fiona’s website! Thanks for that! I’m super excited! I also plan to write to the Virtual Harp Circle (I’ve been getting distracted by all the stuff on Harp Column lol) and ask questions of blind harpers there.

Thanks,
CelticKnot

[Biagio]

Celticknot, I did not mean to confuse things bringing up the Rhiannon etc. Of course there are many beautiful harps out there, those just happen to be two that I love. Pretty big though and I’d not buy either as the first harp. Well, maybe the Caswell…Chris is dead now, and I really loved the guy. Moving along:

Just as there is no agreed standard for naming strings, there is no absolute standard for spacing. Often both naming and spacing is in reference to pedal harps since they have to be more or less standardized. Lever harps not so much.

Spacing gets wider as you go lower since the strings are thicker and longer so you need more room for them to vibrate without bumping into each other. Most lever harps are near or at what you would find on a pedal harp, though. Four to four and a quarter inches would be typical from middle C to the next higher C. But it might be a tad closer depending on what the maker decided.

Sustain is, yes, how long the string will ring after it has been plucked. When you do pluck a string it vibrates in a wave (specifically a sine wave). There are specific points (nodes) where the string is not moving; these are the harmonic points so if you touched the string there and released it at the instance of the pluck you would hear a different note because you have shortened the vibrating length.

Those are the harmonic points (an octave, a fifth, and a fourth) and you ear will register those notes even if the string is played “open.” So we call them overtones since they are heard “over” the fundamental note. Sometimes when people speak of overtones they are also hearing other strings vibrating as well as the fundamental. That’s almost getting into the voodoo of design so I’ll stop there.

Some people like a lot of sustain and a lot of overtone (which I think is one thing that gives the harp it’s magic). Some do not so much since with really BIG sustain like on a wire harp you have to damp it or elae the next notes will sound muddy.

More geek stuff: when a string is plucked with force – for volume or emphasis e.g. – both the body and the neck will vibrate to some degree. A heavy neck will transmit those back to the sound board (and body) so you get a richer tone (the sound is not being absorbed by the neck).

In a similar way, if the body is made of real wood the sound waves will travel through them and produce a noticeable richness in comparison to plywood, which is what the Ravenna sound box is made of (plywood absorbs more energy).

Taking this a bit further, as a generalization, the harder the wood the brighter the tone. Walnut is the “softest” of the commonly used woods and it is said to have a more mellow sound than, for example, hard maple. Usually that’s true. Sapele, which is the only wood available for the Crescendo, is somewhat darker than maple but not nearly as much as walnut.

Taking all this in is a lot to absorb, I know. If money were not an object, based on all I’ve written and what you have, I’d go with the FH over the Crescendo. There is a caveat to that though; harp technique’s a fairly long learning curve so financially it might make sense to me (not someone else of course) to get a Ravenna and keep it for a second harp down the road.

I’m usually very hesitant to offer specific recommendations but from all you have written I will go out on a limb and suggest the FH out of the three Dustys.

Have fun whatever you decide and tell us what happens!

Biagio

[CelticKnot]

Biagio, thanks for all the info. I went and checked out Caswell harps, and realized that I’d heard of them before. I saw a video of the Sweetharp on YouTube, and that’s how I learned about Chris’s passing. I assumed that the harps were no longer being made, and never looked any further into things. I may actually go and check them out, now that I see Caswell is still in business.

Thanks for answering all my questions. 😀 My friends tease me because I’m always asking questions. 🙂

I’m a little confused. You wrote:
Spacing gets wider as you go lower since the strings are thicker and longer so you need more room for them to vibrate without bumping into each other. Most lever harps are near or at what you would find on a pedal harp, though. Four to four and a quarter inches would be typical from middle C to the next higher C. But it might be a tad closer depending on what the maker decided. Are you saying that string spacing is measured not by how much space is in between two strings that are right next to each other, but by how much space is in between two notes, in two octaves, say C and C? That seems weird to me, but whatever. That’s one of the things I’ll think about later lol.

I hear people talking about fifths and fourths. What the heck does that mean? Is there some book or website that can teach me all this basic music stuff, like fifths and major and minor and dominished cords and whatnot? Lol there were a lot of “ands” in that sentence. 😀

Thanks,
CelticKnot

[Author]

Posts