harpcolumn

tuning by ear

Log in to your Harp Column account to post or reply in the forums. If you don’t have an account yet, you’ll need to email us to set one up.

Home Forums Teaching the Harp tuning by ear

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 16 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #85886
    Misty Harrison
    Participant

    I’m trying to teach a student to tune by ear and he’s having a hard time with it. I don’t remember how I learned to do it. Anyone have any ideas?

    #85887
    mr-s
    Member

    Hi Misty , your student should have a good ear talent, he should use the fork for the A`then start tuning or use the A from piano or other instruments then start the other notes, he should be able to sing the intervals and hear it correctly, for example play him A , then let him sing the lower D , the the uper G, then the lower C, then the uper F, after E, then start to sing octaves , beleive me if he has a good hearing ability he can tune by his ear easily.

    #85888

    I started with a “C” tuning fork, tuned middle C, then a slightly flattened fifth (G), then through a cycle of perfect fifths, always slightly flattening each one, so that the end result is a perfectly tempered scale. Then I tuned in octaves all the way down and then all the way up. This takes practice! If you don’t flatten the fifths enough, you get the dreaded “Pythagorean comma”.

    #85889
    mr-s
    Member

    Hi Elizabeth,do you agree that the student should sing first, the fifth and fourth and octaves perfectly then he can be able to tune it perfectly too?

    #85890

    I don’t think there’s any way for a student to be able to flatten fifths well until they have played for years. I would use a tuner with a good sounding pitch and have them match it,

    #85891
    Mel Sandberg
    Participant

    On the same topic, here is something that I have always wondered about: can somebody with perfect pitch tune the harp perfectly by ear, without any trouble?

    #85892
    tony-morosco
    Member

    I don’t have perfect pitch but my partner does and can easily tune by ear. The other day I was warming up my flute and played just one note, Eb. He immediately said, “you’re flat”.

    I said, “it was one note, how can you tell it is flat without a reference?”

    He said reiterated that I was flat.

    I checked with a tuner and he was right. My head-joint was not set correctly and my whole flute was playing flat. I never would have know but he heard it immediately.

    #85893
    Chris Asmann
    Participant

    I’ve been told I have ‘perfect pitch’. I don’t know if I buy that. I can always hear if something isn’t right, and I can tell sharp or flat.

    However, I

    #85894
    mr-s
    Member

    i dont know if i have a perfect pitch or not, but i know if i play a string that is tuned or not and if it needs to be tuned a little up or down by ear, and then check the tuner and find that i am correct as the tuner, but maybe its different from having a perfect pitch and also as i said i sing well and clean, and know the fifth and fourth intervals and octaves, i think that is enough for tuning.

    #85895
    carl-swanson
    Participant

    I’m old enough to remember well a time when all harpists tuned by ear. It was awful! The old saw about harpists spending half of their life tuning and the other half playing out of tune was exactly right. Much of the problem was that we often had to tune when there was background noise of one sort or another. To tune by ear you need dead silence. Also, if the harp is very out of tune when you start tuning by ear, then by the time you are done you are tuning to out of tune strings.

    At one point I had a piano tuner give me some tips on tuning. Just checking 5ths and 4ths will not do it. There is too much leeway. You have to check major thirds and 10ths, you have to check the intervals of an octave and a 4th and an octave and a 5th, and two octave intervals. I got much better at tuning by ear, but it took at least 20 minutes. If tuning machines had not come along I think I would have given up the harp. With a machine of course we can do a quick and accurate tuning in maybe 2 minutes or less. For me personally I say good riddance to tuning by ear.

    #85896
    harp guy
    Participant

    I don’t know if perfect pitch would necessarily be helpful in this instance. I have perfect pitch, but my sense of pitch is sometimes dependant on tone color of the produced tone. So if it is a warmer tone, I sometimes hear it as being flat, and if it is a brighter tone I sometimes hear it as being sharp. In either instance though, a tuner may say that they are exactly correct. So, switching between bass wires, gut strings, and treble nylons could be tricky.

    #85897

    Mel,

    Try this. Use your electric metronome to get a concert A or use a tuning fork. Tune as many A’s as you can using harmonics to double check. Then play a fifth down. You should hear a wavey sound. Tune until that “wave” is smooth. Then go an octive from there and double check with harmonics.Keep doing fifths until you’ve done all the strings.

    #85898
    tony-morosco
    Member

    I hate tuning by ear, but when I absolutely have to this is also the way I do it, by playing fifths and then doing the octaves. It is time consuming but it is the only way I can get a correct tuning without the aid of an electronic tuner.

    I can hear when an octave is right and I can tell when a fifth is right, but if I am just doing a scale I may be able to tell something is off but I have a devil of a

    #85899
    Mel Sandberg
    Participant

    Sid, thanks for your advice.

    #85900
    carl-swanson
    Participant

    If you’re going to tune by ear, here’s the jist of what the piano tuner told me. Throughout this process, what you are mostly, almost entirely listening to the the “beat” produced when you play two notes simultaneously. With the 4th and 5th intervals you are trying to slow the beat down. With thirds and 6ths you are listening to a nice roll to the beat. It takes time to learn to hear this beat accurately. Even piano tuners who stop tuning for a while have to get that skill back when they start up again. You can only tune by ear if you have DEAD SILENCE as you tune.

    Start with A 440, matched to a tuning fork. The whole tuning should be done in C flat(all pedals in flat position). But for the sake of explaining this clearly here, without a flat symbol, I’ll explain it as if you were tuning with all the pedals in natural. Also, if your harp is not very well regulated, you’re probably better of tuning in natural.

    Tune both D’s and both E’s from the A. There is less aural leeway with a 4th than a 5th, so chances are your 4ths will be more in tune. Use your tuned 4th to check the octave, i.e., the E below A is a 4th and so will probably be more accurate. Tune the E 5 above the A to A but check it against the lower E.

    Next tune both G’s from the D, and both B’s from the E. At this point you have the major third and major 6th of G to B that you can check.

    Now tune both C’s from the G. Since B to F is an augmented 4th without moving F into sharp or B into flat, you should complete the circle from the other side. With both C’s in tune you can check more major and minor thirds and 6ths.

    Lastly, tune the F’s to C. In each of these steps, tune the new note from the previous one using both the 4th interval and the 5th. If you tune only using the interval of a 5th you could wind up wildly off when you complete the circle.

    At this point you should have about 2 octaves that have been tuned intervallicaly. Make sure at this point that everything sounds the way you want and make any changes necessary. You may have to go over the whole thing again to get it right.

    Now start tuning down the instrument using compound 4ths and 5ths(an octave and a 4th, an octave and a 5th). These are much more accurate than tuning octaves. As you get further down the instrument, tune by 2 octave intervals, i.e. 5th octave C to 3rd octave C for example. Also use the compound intervals to check. But it’s hard to hear 5th and 6th octave notes in 4th and 5th intervals, even compound.

    Tune up the instrument the same way, using compound intervals and 2 octave intervals.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 16 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.