Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
So, your harp is significantly heavier than stated by the manufacturer. Instead of the stated 14.1 kg it weighs almost 20 kg, which is the weight of my 40 pedal gut strung L&H Prelude lever harp (which needs to be that heavily built in order to withstand the very heavy string tension).
Yes, I can imagine, you find 20 kg ridiculously high for your 38 nylon strung harp. So would I.
Now, I am not sure whether where you live customs clearance is just part of the importing costs or whether this would amount to the complete importing costs. And yes, the harp should have been delivered to your home, as this was part of the agreement with the manufacturer.
I am inclined to think there were some misunderstandings, as it may be rather hard for a customer service abroad to communicate in a foreign language and to fully understand all details.
I understand that you decided not to try further on to find a fair solution, but still I wonder whether their agent in New York (have a look at: http://www.mikelceltic.com/new-development-mikel-celtic-instruments/ might be of some help.
Anyway, some years ago, this manufacturer went out of his way to keep customers satisfied and wanted to learn how to build better harps, so I wonder whether this is mostly a case of Murphy’s law.
Hi Molly, I’m sorry to hear you had this sad experience with Mikel Celtics customer service.
Did you try to contact its boss? As he cares about the good name of his shop, he may be willing to find a fair solution for you.
By the way, you wrote: ” I pay my own money to cover the import costs.” Frankly, unless the seller offered to pay these costs for you, I’d expect that you had to pay costs like customs fees, VAT (if applicable where you live) and other import costs by yourself and that these costs would not only be calculated on the price of the instrument, but also on the price of the shipping costs.
On the Mikel Celtic Site, it does mention the weight of each harp at: https://mikelharps.com/mikel-lever-harps/ Your Mikel 38 would weight 14.1 kg, wich seems quite normal for a harp like this. Frankly, even a weight of about 17 kilo wouldn’t surprise me. Does your harp weigh significantly more than is indicated on the site?
Again, I am sorry for your situation and I do hope that a fair solution will be found.
Recently, Harplist has transitioned to: https://harplist.groups.io
Hi Biagio, congratulations with ordering a Cheyenne.
Hi Howard, just before the festive season starts, you may find some time to visit the Portland harp shop, just 12 miles from where you live. There you may try several second hand harps and discover what your left hand is capable of, and… already buy Sylvia Woods’ classic harp album 50 Christmas Carols for All Harps. Seriously, it’s a must have for all professional (and beginner) harpers.
I am a great fan of second hand harps, as they don’t have the problems of ‘working wood’ like some new harps have and they are usually nice priced, and use to keep their value when you decide to sell them later on. Also good to know, you may even make a little profit on them, as the harps are getting steadily pricier and pricier.
If the site is up to date, in the Portland harpshop, there are several interesting second hand harps: http://www.classicharpsnw.com/previouslyownedharps/previouslyownedlever.html
4 rather old L&H Troubadours. I don’t know these old models, their levers will be different from the newer ‘performance levers’, but perhaps they function just fine, I have no idea. Anyway, when I started the harp in the early nineties, where I live, these harps were considered to be top of the class).
2 Salvi Julia’s, not my cup of tea, with their audible levers (rubbing metal to metal in the bass regers and audible clicking over the whole register).
1 rather old 38 strings L&H Prelude. I don’t know which levers it has. The newer Prelude come with 40 strings, with the lowest the A and B below the C of the old 38 L&H Prelude. Yes, it is nice to have those extra two low strings, but the standard is still the lowest string to be a C two octaves below middle C. The ‘gold’ crown and claw feet can be easily removed.
There are also two Triplett harps. Triplett harps are quality harps too, you may like them.And, they may have some nice harp carts to look at.
Anyway, have a great festive season, all of you
Hi Biagio, I would love to follow your stories and pictures of the Cheyenne if you would decide to build that harp.
Thanks for correcting me, Howard. So,I just changed ‘wood’ into ‘would’.
Haha, Biagio will understand. We all have our little hobbies. :)’As to a 2nd hand L&H Troubadour, nice price, probably a nice harp… The Troubadour has longer bass strings than the Ogden, and longer bass strings simply sound fuller than shorter ones. The Ogden comes with a nice rucksack (at least where I live), but the Troubadour doesn’t, unfortunately.
Like all current L&H lever harps, the Troubadour will be strung with pedal gut. Older L&H lever harps may be strung with lighter string tension. You may like to know that there are different Troubadour harps, models I-VI if I am not mistaken… and yest, they are really different, not only in price.So, Howard, do I understand correctly that were you live, you don’t have to struggle to get your instruments through tourniquets in order to be able to get to the kind of mass transit in your area?
As to the build-out of a harp kit, just share the pictures and stories that you really like to share. Btw, I always love to see how raw wood changes into beautifully polished would with a nice grain… 🙂
So, my nine links in my message above of two days ago, obviously didn’t make you change your mind about your current plans. I am glad, that I didn’t manage to make you hesitate which way wood be the best for you. Please, keep us posted on your next steps.
In the US, An homage may not hold as a defense to copyright infringement (see: https://www.morse.law/news/blurred-lines-copyright )
I don’t know whether at least in some countries of Europe it would be seen as an infringement of copyright too, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this were the case, as an homage may be considered to be plagiarism, and so, in fact, be a case of copyright abuse.All member states of the EU still have their own copyright law and policy… and so, the situation in France will be different from the situation in the Netherlands. Here on the site of the European Union, : https://euipo.europa.eu/ohimportal/en/web/observatory/faqs-on-copyright after choosing your country, you will find 15 questions answered on Intellectual Property Rights.
Hi Howard, as you mentioned that transportability is an issue, as you don’t have a car, I think you might consider a double strung harp. Yes, a 26 or 27 strung double doesn’t have bass strings, but still you can play them on the other side of the harp, just an octave higher than usual.
Pro double string: easily transportable, you may take ‘difficult’ stretches by the hand that manages best to grasp them (and they are levered at both sides, which in your case may be another advantage) and you’ve got a few extra tricks on your sleeve. You like the sound of Dusty’s, so you may like the double strung Dusty as well. https://manufacturing.dustystrings.com/harps/browse-models/fh26-double-strung
Anyway, after reading the two thread you have started on this forum and watching the videoclips we linked to, I guess you are ready to travel to some harp shops and discover which harps suits you best at the moment.
I do hope you will be sharing your experiences when trying out the harps. And of course, I you decide to built one from a kit, we would love to read about your experiences (preferably with pictures of the several phases of building).
And if deciding proves to be hard, renting a Dusty Ravenna 34 is a great way to start your harping voyage.
Edit: I forgot to mention the Heartland carbon fiber harps. They are very light, so more easily transportable than other harps. I probably forgot to mention them as they are not my cup of tea. But still, I think they deserve to be mentioned.
Howard, you received the first mail of this thread as by default every member of this forum receives the first mail of a thread (and the rest of the rest only after subscription to that thread).
You may like to know that harp notation is a world on its own and I’m sure that Saul Davis Zlatkovski didn’t mean to say anything nasty. Also, writing for the harp requires a thorough knowledge of the sound of the harp and the way the harp sounds. Music that works fine on the piano is often less suitable for the harp (e.g. the harp sounds muddy when full chords are used in the bass position; and playability for the harp is another important question). So, if you like to play a certain piano piece on the harp, the piece usually needs to be specially arranged for the harp to sound well.
You may like to google some articles written by harpists on composing and arranging for the harp by non-harp playing composers.This is very complicated matter and also depends on where in the world you live. In Europe e.g. the concept of ‘fair use’ does not exist.
“→ At the time of their death (on the next January actually), a 70-years timer starts. The song is still copyrighted and the proceeds go to their inheritors.
→ Then, 70 years later, the song fall in the public domain and anyone can use it. So anything written before 1949 is free to use.”
The second paragraph needs adaptation. 70 years after the death of the author, the song becomes public domain and anyone can use it. So, (in 2019) anything written by an author who died before 1949, is free to use.But, to complicate things, there are exemptions…. which may or may not be relevant, depending on where you live… Have a look at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act
Right, Biagio! I know a lot of people who have several harps, all with different sound qualities, comfort of playing and transportability. And I may probably forget other qualities that may be relevant.
And, Howard, as you think of getting a pedal harp (by default strung with hard tension strings!) later, I guess, the full and rich sound of lever harps with a hard tension may be to your liking. I think the main point is whether your left hand could handle such a strong tension and and of course, how important it is to you to be able to play fast celtic music on it.
Here some harps which were earlier for sale at the Atlanta Harp Center. Though video clips don’t give an authentic sound, one still can kind of compare them when they are played in the same room with the same tune.
A Dusty Ravenna: https://youtu.be/Vo0Y-nB67hI
A Dusty Crescendo: https://youtu.be/rPjBuEYjX94
A Dusty FH36S: https://youtu.be/u8keihS61KA
A Music Maker Voyageur: https://youtu.be/NlewWqjlCzk
A L&H Ogden: https://youtu.be/NrNVIqGFLkw
A Thormahlen Swan: https://youtu.be/sUK_l2iddlQ
A Thormahlen Serenade: https://youtu.be/CtOAQyREx4U
A Camac Korrigan: https://youtu.be/2irZPQdjnYE
A Camac Isolde: https://youtu.be/exbaLIaK5Ss
L&H is a relatively big company and parts of the lever harps and cheaper pedal harps are being built in China, though the harp itself is still put together in the US. (The same is the case with Salvi harps, being built partly in China and partly in Italy).
So, that is mass production versus artisanal production.
It’s also using layered and colored wood versus mainly solid wood. This doesn’t say anything about the sound and quality. I love L&H harps. And I love Camac harps. The great thing about Camac harps is that they are completely built in France by people working in a safe environment and earning a decent salary for their work. And Camac harps still are nice priced (at least in Europe)…
Yes, Biagio, I do like heavily strung harps, but I do like medium strung harps as well. Therefore I have both a L&H Prelude as well as a Camac Excalibur and I was tempted to buy a harp with an even lower tension. Some pieces I like to play on one harp and other pieces on the other harp.
Howard, as to someone believing the Crescendo sounding 10 times better than the Ravenna, I’m afraid there are people who unwittingly add the nice looks of a a partly solid wooden instrument to its nice sound.
Frankly, I think the Dusty Ravenna is a real nice harp and still rather transportable. For a significantly better sound, I would buy a 36 strung Dusty, but then, apart from the price, transportability would be a stumble block.
Howard, I think it’s a great idea to start with a Dusty Ravenna 34.
You mention the ‘plinkiness’ of the Ravenna. To my ears, the Ravenna has a typical celtical sound with a rather medium tension. If you want a significantly fuller, but still mellow sound, I would definitely check out the L&H Ogden. This harp has pedal gut tension and, at least in Europe, comes with a very nice rucksack! Here: https://www.vaharpcenter.com/harp/lyon-healy-ogden/ it costs $3,200.00 dollars. I like the silent and smooth functiononing Performance levers on the L&H’s. They are not a great as the Camac levers, but better than all the other levers I have tried. I love the Ogden. I play on it at harp lessons. Of course, the sound is less rich than an L&H Prelude, but it still is a very great harp. Earlier, one could order the Ogden also strung with nylon.Edit: as to Thormahlen harps, these are beautifully built lever harps built by Dave Thormahlen in Oregon.
Music Makers instruments are in Stillwater, Westlakeland Township. They make quality finished musical instruments, kits, blueprints, and supplies. They are best known for their harpkits.
So, these two businesses are definitely not the same.
Hi Howard, about levers being suitable for certain diameters of strings. Most kinds of levers, including those modern Camac levers, come with several dimensions. The only really important thing is to know the diameter you need for each string. Some levers have a relatively broad ‘band with’, others a very small ‘band with’. Camac levers a precision levers.
In Europe, Camac levers are sold to small harp manufacturers and harp repairers (and the latter sell them usually including the price of mounting them on one’s harp). I haven’t got a clue how things work in the US, but I guess this may be the same.
