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One kind of levers that have not been mentioned, are the Performance Levers of L&H. Yes, they are said to eat strings, and yes, I can understand why this happens, especially when the levers are mounted a bit shoddy. They work smoothly and quietly, probably because of the teflon coating. And they are rather forgiving when one wants strings with another diameter. But, they are rubbing the strings when operated.
I have the Performance Levers on my L&H Prelude and in almost a whole year I just lost 3 gut strings, all shortly after the purchase of the harp. So, the loss of strings by rubbing is not dramatical. Yet, the Camacs don’t rub the strings at all and there is hardly any difference in sound between strings with or without the levers ‘on’. They are not cheap, though: https://www.harp.com/product/performance-lever/
Camac levers are much cheaper, anyway in Europe. I was shocked to hear the hight prices in the US. Here in Europe, they come at about 15 euro a piece, mouting them on the harp included…Then there are also the cheap Chinese levers that Salvi now has adapted a bit sells them as ‘plug-and-play’-levers. See the German harp forum at: https://www.harfenforum.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4566
As to Delacours levers, you may like to know some background as highlighted in the article André Glémin: Le magicien du demi-ton at http://harpomania.free.fr/HARPESMAG8.pdf (in French, but Google Translate may be of help).
And here how these levers came to their end: http://alan-stivell.discuforum.info/t1927-HARPMAG-n-7.htm?start=15 (also in French).
Hier noch was Fotos from the German Harp Forum: https://www.harfenforum.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=543&start=30
I seem to remember from the German Harp Forum that someone told that Glémin had a conflict with Camac about his levers as they had a lot of technical similarities with the Camac levers, but I haven’t been able to find that information. Anyway, in the article in Harpmania above it was mentioned that both André Glémin and Murielle Schreder, who invented the delacours levers, had both worked at Camac.
Hi Biagio, yes, I know the special way the Dusty Ravenna’s are made and that the plywood of the soundboard is covered with vinyl. It always surprised me that they didn’t cover it with veneer, but I guess that vinyl is easier and cheaper to use.
The bulkiness at the bottom of other lever harps (like the Camacs and the L&H’s) may have to do with a greater volume of the soundbox as well as the balance of the harp (it won’t topple over as fast as some other models).
Yeah, there’s a lot to say about the different ways a harp can be built and what this means for the sound of the harp. I understand why people are fascinated by harp design and like to try out all kinds of possible varieties. And then there is the wood… Even harps made from the same model and the same wood, but from a different tree, sound different. It was quite shocking for me to discover with my own ears how much difference in sound this can be. Some people even believe that harps made from the same tree, but from a different part of that tree sound different.
Hi Howard, you mentioned that you didn’t get responses to this thread. Could it be that you haven’t subscribed to this thread, yet? You will find a link near the top and near the bottom of the page to do that.
Earlier, you wondered why almost only the Dusty Ravenna had a bulkier bottom (you formulated it differently, but I can’t find your exact words). Well, the Camac lever harps all have rather ‘bulky bottoms’. I am a great fan of Camac harps. They’ve got models with all kinds of lever tension, and, they all are fitted with great levers. In Europe, these sturdy harps with balanced sounds have rather nice prices (relatively speaking…), I got the impression they are significantly pricier in the US, but still, I think if possible, you’d best visit a shop where they sell Camac lever harps.
Hi Howard, I agree with Biagio on having a look at the very many instructional (free) videos of Josh Layne.
Yet, I think you’d best start with studying the several (free) videos of Ray Pool: you see them listed and embedded at: http://www.raypool.com/video.html. He explains and shows elementary technique in a calm and clear way.
Yes, fingers and thumb closing is a really important technique, not only to get a good sound, but also to relax after playing a note in order to prevent developing (chronic!) injuries.
There are several good books to study technique, Biagio already mentioned some of them. Still, it’s vital that you get feedback from a professional harp teacher.
Otherwise you risk developing a less great tone, but, even worse, chronic injuries.
The big problem with self-teaching when one has decided to become a professional, is that one can’t unlearn things. Unfortunately, I started my harp lessons in a large group from a teacher who had studied piano. Many moons later, I still struggle to not use the same old, bad harp technique for which I was not corrected when starting to learn the harp, again and again.
I am convinced that taking lessons from a professional harp teacher in order to learn a good and healthy harp technique is an investment really justifying the costs, especially when one aims to become a professional.
I am probably repeating partly what I already wrote somewhere in the earlier thread you started, but I hope you don’t mind.
Hi Howard, did I already mention that I like to complicate things? LOL
I think the Dusty Ravenna is a real nice harp to start one’s harp journey with and the staved soundbox probably feels significantly more comfortable while playing then the square box of the Crescendo.But you may like to have a look at the 34 string Dusty Boulevard Classic too. It looks a lot like a Ravenna (and is based on that model), but it is strung with pedal gut strings. Perhaps you like the sound, perhaps you don’t. But, I think, you would really like to find this out for yourself.
Yes, I do understand you’d like to play celtic music on it, but as you often play in churches, you would also like to play Bach, which in my opinion, sounds better on a pedal gut strung lever harp. On the other hand, nylon strings may feel kinder to your fingers….
Anyway, you may like to have a look at and listen to the soundclip at: https://manufacturing.dustystrings.com/harps/browse-models/boulevard-34Frankly, when I would choose a 34 string harp with pedal gut, I undoubtedly would choose a L&H Ogden for its mellow and rich sound (see: https://www.lyonhealy.com/harps/ogden/. But L&H’s have the widest space between the strings in the bass section of all harps I know, so that may be not so comfortable for your left hand in your particular case.
But anyway, whether you prefer a Dusty Ravenna or a Dusty Boulevard, is mainly a question of taste, and in my opinion, one can’t get wrong with a Dusty.
I agree with Biagio, though I must say that their (very nice, in my opinion the best) modern metal levers don’t tolerate much difference between the string diameters. And so, there is a Camac Classic Isolde and a Camac Celtic Isolde lever harp. The only difference, beside the kind and diameter of carbon strings being the measures of the levers and the strings. One could decide to go from celtic to classic carbon tension, but that would mean that several levers needed to be replaced by other levers. And, I think it’s good to know that having new levers put on is relatively pricey.
The L&H Performance levers are much more forgiving in this respect. I don’t know about other kinds of levers.Edit: by the way, I love the sound of pedal gut on larger lever harps, but I can’t be really enthousiast about the sound of folk gut tension on the same harp. Also, even when some smaller lever harps are built to withstand the tension of pedal gut, I think their strings tend to sound rather dull. I think that pedal gut does need a certain lenght in order to sound nice.
Hi Howard, I agree with what Biagio, charles-nix and balfour-knight say above.
As you would like to perform professionally on the harp, you really do need a knowledgeable harp teacher who can help you develop a great tone which projects nicely through larger spaces without you incurring injuries because of unhealthy harp playing habits. I do believe that by self teaching you could learn to play really nicely for yourself and your friends and family in your own living room, just for fun. But that would be quite a different situation, wouldn’t it? You would not practice for hours a day and you need not be able to produce the fullest and richest sound your instrument is capable of.As I like to complicate things: you mentioned you like to be able to play celtic ornaments. So, perhaps we went a bit fast into the directon of instruments very suitable for playing these ornaments.
1. As you play pipe organ and horn, I guess your musical taste is much broader than celtic music alone. So, I guess you would like to play classical pieces as well, right? Frankly, I think most classical pieces sound better on a harp with middle to heavy string tension. Otherwise, you would need to dampen a lot more than on a harp with a middle to heavy string tension.
2. Another thing is the kind of sound you get from a harp. There are people who love to get a ‘folk’ sound (yes, I’m grossly simplifying) and other love to play celtic music on a harp with a more or less ‘classical’ tone. You really need to find out what your personal preference would be. If you like to play all kinds of music on a harp with a somewhat classical sound, with still rather sturdy folk gut strings, strong nylon strings or perhaps carbon strings.
I would be very tempted to try one of the nylon Dusty harps, as they offer a rather sturdy folk tension and a great tone. The Dusty FH36S and the a bit cheaper FH36H,] belong to the top of the market. Remember that but a staved harp or a harp with a round sound box may feel more natural to your arms than a soundbox in the form of a more or less rectangular box) By the way, you would have the choice between ordinary levers and Camac levers. I would definitely go for Camac levers, as they are the easiest for flipping and also when they are engaged, they hardly influence the sound. But that would be interesting only later, as I think you’d best rent first and then decide what kind of harp you really like. If it turns out you really play easier when you play the melody with your left hand, you could later on place a special order for such a harp. That would be much better for the structural integrity of the harp, than when you would have new holes drilled for the levers at the right side of the harp and the older holes where the levers were, filled. This is the case with all lever harps of all manufacturors. Anyway, it would be best if you could manage to play with the levers on the left side, as it would make it much easier to sell the harp later on if you, like a lot of people, would decide that another harp would be better fitting your needs than the harp you buy first.
If at all possible, do visit a shop where they sell Camacs and try especially the Camac Excalibur. I’ve got one myself (also google Josh Layne, who also owns a Camac Excalibur as well as a pedal harp and several other harps). The Excalibur has carbon strings with a string tension between pedal gut tension and folk tension. It has a rich, clear with a warm tinge and very balanced sound. I think it forms a very nice contrast to my L&H Prelude, with its large, rich, warm and balanced sound
Finally, you may also like to have a look at a Salvi Ana with folk strings (in gut or nylgut). It looks like in the US the Salvi Ana’s still have the pedal gut string tension that have been abandoned for Europe for more than ten years already, but perhaps, where you live, you might get a choice (which you would have to make beforehand, as otherwise you would need new levers and these are really costly). Beware though that there is a significant difference in the sound of such a harp strung with folk strings or pedal strings.
Hi Howard, as to the size of harps suitable for performance in public places, I can’t say much. Partly it has to do with the model of the harp and partly with suitable amplication.
The L&H Prelude is very popular with people who love a classical harp sound and who may like to play a pedal harp later and/or because it offers a lot of harp for a relatively nice price. I have no intention to buy a pedal harp, mainly because I can play everything I want to play on my Prelude.
You said you saw a second hand Prelude being offered. Some older Preludes have 38 strings instead of 40 strings and these old harps miss the low A and the low B. No big problem, but I would really miss these two lowest strings.
As far as comparing a L&H Prelude to a Salvi Ana. In Europe (where I live, but perhaps not in the US) the Salvi Ana’s are not strung with pedal gut, but with folk gut. I prefer the sound of pedal gut, but this is personal. There are lots of people who prefer the sound of a Salvi Ana.There are three main reasons why I bought a Prelude:
1. I prefer the sound of the strings of the higher register of the Prelude, as these strings sounds warmer and richer in my ears (even with the nylon strings that nowaday are on the higher strings and which can be changed into pedal gut strings after a year or so when the harp has completely stabilized)
2. The Performance levers of the Prelude work nicer than the Chinese ‘plug-and-play’levers of the Salvi’s. I have heard though that these have recently improved, so maybe, this isn’t relevant any longer.
3. The L&H Prelude is a lot cheaper than the Salvi Ana (at least in Europe).As to cross strings and double strings: these are nice when you like to invent your own arrangements. There are a few books that I know of. When you like to play classical lever harp repertoire, I would buy a… lever harp. 🙂
Celtic ornamentation is seldom written out. There are several embellishments which one can choose to eh.. embellish celtic songs. There’s a book from the eighties: Allison Kinnaird ‘The Small Harp: a Step by Step Tutor’ which explains several of the embellishments in Scots music. It comes with a cassette… There must be newer methods, but I don’t know them.
Anyway, to play celtic music, you’d better not choose a harp with pedal gut tension, or it would be rather hard to play the very heavy strings very quickly and still sound nice. If you love celtic music, perhaps one of the Dusty nylon strung harps would be a better fit.
If you don’t have a car, I think it’s relevant to consider how you plan to transport your harp to the places you like to perform.
As to the way the harp is tilted: it should be supported by the floor and just rest very lightly to your shoulder. You could also use your knees to stabilize the harp. The strings should be (almost) perfectly vertically while you play.
Howard did you intentionally delete your message of today?
Sometimes the forum software deletes a message unintentionally and I think this may be the case here.
I did receive your message into my inbox, so if you lost the message, I could re-post it for you, if you wish. And then I could provide you with an answer to some of yourquestions.
I agree with Biagio’s advice above.
One thing I forgot to mention before: as you are used to performing on the organ and the horn, you may as well wish to perform on the harp.
If so, you may want to think about the portability and transportability of the harp. A pedal harp of 46-47 strings easily weighs 35 kilo, while one can find 34-38 string lever harp from about 12 to 17 kilo (some weigh a bit less, others a bit more). The heaviest lever harp I know (and own) is the L&H Prelude with 40 strings with pedal gut tension and a weight of about 20 kilo. This is a harp that sounds almost like a pedal harp. Harps that are rather light weight and so have rather a much lighter string tension, sound quite different. A friend of mine said that to her ears, these harps with a low string tension almost sound more like classical guitars than like (pedal) harps. I must confess I never had this association myself before she mentioned it, while I do play the classical guitar (or, better said, try to play it).
Some harps come with a pick up and a pre-amp installed. This may or may not be what you are looking for.
Beware though that harps fit more or less like shoes. The model should suit you. You really need to sit behind a harp to find out whether it’s a good fit.
One thing that I think is really important, is the question of the amount of chromatism in the kind of music you like to play.
Wire harps usually don’t have levers, so they are really diatonic. One can play somewhat chromatic music on lever harps,depending on one’s ability to flip levers while playing. On pedal harps one uses the feet instead of the left hand for enabling to play notes that don’t belong to the key one plays in. And then, there are the cross strung harps, with 6×6 layout or 7×5 layout. The 7×5 layout looks a bit like the layout of the piano, while the 6×6 layout has equally devided half notes left and right. Both systems have their pros and cons.And then, there’s also the double strung harp. Laurie Riley has a lot of information and great videos on that. Start here: https://laurierileymusic.com/complete-introductin-to-the-double-strung-harp/ She’s also very interested in the ergonomic aspects of playing the harp.
Also, Carolyn Deal ‘smilingharp’ has a lot of information on double strung at her site and links to her video’s at: http://southeasternharps.com/Home.html . By the way, there are more builders and shops for double strung harps, but this link is just to give you a first impression.
I don’t have an injury to my hands, but my fingers are rather small and stretching isn’t easy for me.
Harpers and harpists don’t use their pinky fingers. I think you’d best ask a harper in your neighbourhood (if there isn’t a harpshop in a reasonable distance) to show you how to play an 1-5-8 chord (root – fifth – octave). If you manage to do that with using the standard fingering with your thumb, middle finger and ringfinger, I guess your fingers won’t be holding you back at all. If you manage to grasp a 1-5-8 chord with an alternative fingering, you’re probably lucky as well, though I would ask a reputable teacher what she thinks about your potential on the harp.
You may wish to start your harping journey with renting a harp from a reputable harp shop. That way you can find out if the harp is a good fit for you and you may get a nice deal when later on you would decide to buy this harp or another harp (harps differ a lot in sound and string tension and ‘feel’, so it’s important to find the harp that suits you best.
Are you somewhere in Europe, in the US or in another part of the world? If you like, we could come up with some marks and models that are widely available where you live.
Anyway, enjoy the start of your harping adventure.
As to beginner or (early) intermediate music for a protestant church wedding well playable on a lever harp, I would think of Sylvia Woods’ Hymns and Wedding Music for All Harps and of Beth a Kolle and Laurie Rileys Wedding Music for the Lever Harp
