Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
A 34 that is small and light enough would have lower tension than most others out there, if not all. Blevins has a great reputation and has been making some very nice therapy harps.
Another option to consider would be a small double strung. Blevins makes several – one of my friends has his Cameo 46 (23 strings each side) and loves it. His Cameo 52 (26 each side) should be fine too; then there is the Rees Morgan for a bit more expense. I have a double 23 left from six or seven made as rentals.
You can play all of these sitting with LeStik (or similar) or standing with a strap.
Biagio
I would not describe the ‘sciles as having a full round sound, although they would certain fit the bill on the other requirements. The Christina comes highly recommended for that work.
For little more cost and a lot more tone I’d strongly suggest looking into the Harps of Lorien Raphael:
http://www.harpsoflorien.com/therapy_economy_harps.html
This is the favorite harp of Laurie Riley; Laurie as you may know has been a moving force in music therapy.
Biagio
All of the ‘sicles up to the Special Edition use the same string set – either standard, or upgraded for additional cost. The Special has the upgrade as standard.
If tension is too low for the particular pitch, tone suffers; especially in the bass where you want the most power usually. What you might want in terms of levers depends on what kind of music you usually play.
The only difference between the Sharpsicle and Flatsicle is the additional lever on Bs. This useful especially if you play with pipers (usually fixed there in F key) or have a lot of tunes in F that you don’t want to transpose. I’d get the Sharpsicle myself, but it’s just personal preference.
If you are a Celtic player you might prefer that additional lever on the Gs instead or in addition and I’m sure they would do that if asked.
Biaigo
jpbarbaleta asked:
Why are Harpsicles so inexpensive?
The line as a whole – Harpsicles to Fullsicles – are quite easy to build, of fairly light materials and low tension, so a lot of the upfront costs of making a good instrument are minimal compared to (for example) Ree’s higher end instruments such as the Morgan. Levers (for those that have them) used to be the low cost Robinsons as well. The newer ‘sicles have Rees’ own levers which are great – but since they are theirs they probably don’t cost much more if at all than the Robinsons.
Some people, me included, don’t like the loose lower strings but they have an alternative, higher tension set that I’d highly recommend. If you want a decent starter instrument at low cost they’re about the only ones I’d recommend, except the Music Makers Smartwood. Also a good low initial investment but again: very low tension in the bass.
Biagio
Hi Celticknot,
We number an octave (in any key) from the first note of the scale up to the eighth – one full octave. In our C chord case a low C (the root) is 1 D is 2 E is 3….. so the full chord would be notes 1 3 5 and 8 (C E G C). This holds true for any key and any eight note scale. Still in the key of C an F chord would be F A C F – the C scale intervals would now be 4 6 8 and 10. Confusing? Not so much because as harperists we also number the four fingers with the thumb being a 1.
Back to a C chord: we’d play the with fingers 4 3 2 and 1 – ring finger (#4) on the first C, next finger on the E, index finger on the G and thumb (#1) on the next C up.
How about that F chord? It’s the same shape, just different notes: F A C F. A G chord – still same shape but notes are G B D G. Let’s not complicate things any more for now which would be pretty easy to do!
Some easy beginning harp books that many use are Teach Yourself to Play the Folk Harp (Sylvia Woods) Basic Harp for Beginners (Laurie Riley) and Play the Harp Beautifully (Pam Bruner volumes 1 2 and 3). Some of these have CDs or DVDs. Of course they all have pictures and scores so that may not be entirely helpful. Some others are Ray Pool’s 3’s a Chord, Yolanda Kondonassis On Playing the Harp, Sylvia Woods Music Theory and Arranging for the Folk Harp.
I think that when you have your new harp or even before at this point you should start looking for a teacher, preferably one who is comfortable playing and teaching by ear. Some teach using Skype or something similar. I studied that way for awhile with Laurie until she moved to the same Island; incidentally she almost always plays by ear.
Skype is useful but it will not replace a good teacher, even for those of us who are sighted.
Hope that helps!
Biagio
When you get our harp or even before
Questions are good!! I really really REALLY wish more beginners would ask them, especially the technical ones, before plunking down a lot of money!
Chris’ family has not taken down the website for some reason but as far as I know they are out of business. It’s pretty rare to see a used Caswell for sale too – those that have them love them too much! He was an amazing harp maker and an amazing musician.
OK more on design. When a harp maker sits down to a new design, he/she decides first of all on what the strings will be within the overall physical limitations: height, weight, range, purpose, etc. Once that is done, the diameters and tensions are known so he/she goes to his drafting board, CAD program, or whatever, and lays out a (hopefully) exact full scale blueprint. Or they may just copy an existing design.
So in principle, spacing may be slightly different between the string on one side of our initial reference (which is actually usually the A above middle C) and the one on the other side. And so on down and up the whole range. Just measuring a full octave in the middle is a quick and dirty way to get an idea of the overall spacing design. We’re assuming here that the designer knows his or her business of course!
All of the Dusty’s are “concert spacing” – close to what you would find on a pedal harp with those strings.
There are many good books on music theory, some for harps and some more general. Finding them in Braille may be a bit tougher but I’m sure there are some. To keep things brief here for now….
A full chord (we’ll choose a C here) would be C E G and the next C. Counting from and including that first C you have a third a fifth and an 8th (E G and the next C). There are so many types of chords (and scales for that matter) that it can get pretty mind boggling, especially if you are a jazz guitarist! I sure as heck don’t know most and really don’t want to haha.
Most beginning instruction for the lever harp assumes a C major scale since there are no sharps nor flats (no levers up) and your first chords will probably be C F and G. Volumes of tunes have been composed with just those three.
This is the point where I’ll bow out and ask more experienced players and teachers to dive in!! I know a fair amount about design but consider myself an advanced beginner at playing:-)
Biagio
Celticknot, I did not mean to confuse things bringing up the Rhiannon etc. Of course there are many beautiful harps out there, those just happen to be two that I love. Pretty big though and I’d not buy either as the first harp. Well, maybe the Caswell…Chris is dead now, and I really loved the guy. Moving along:
Just as there is no agreed standard for naming strings, there is no absolute standard for spacing. Often both naming and spacing is in reference to pedal harps since they have to be more or less standardized. Lever harps not so much.
Spacing gets wider as you go lower since the strings are thicker and longer so you need more room for them to vibrate without bumping into each other. Most lever harps are near or at what you would find on a pedal harp, though. Four to four and a quarter inches would be typical from middle C to the next higher C. But it might be a tad closer depending on what the maker decided.
Sustain is, yes, how long the string will ring after it has been plucked. When you do pluck a string it vibrates in a wave (specifically a sine wave). There are specific points (nodes) where the string is not moving; these are the harmonic points so if you touched the string there and released it at the instance of the pluck you would hear a different note because you have shortened the vibrating length.
Those are the harmonic points (an octave, a fifth, and a fourth) and you ear will register those notes even if the string is played “open.” So we call them overtones since they are heard “over” the fundamental note. Sometimes when people speak of overtones they are also hearing other strings vibrating as well as the fundamental. That’s almost getting into the voodoo of design so I’ll stop there.
Some people like a lot of sustain and a lot of overtone (which I think is one thing that gives the harp it’s magic). Some do not so much since with really BIG sustain like on a wire harp you have to damp it or elae the next notes will sound muddy.
More geek stuff: when a string is plucked with force – for volume or emphasis e.g. – both the body and the neck will vibrate to some degree. A heavy neck will transmit those back to the sound board (and body) so you get a richer tone (the sound is not being absorbed by the neck).
In a similar way, if the body is made of real wood the sound waves will travel through them and produce a noticeable richness in comparison to plywood, which is what the Ravenna sound box is made of (plywood absorbs more energy).
Taking this a bit further, as a generalization, the harder the wood the brighter the tone. Walnut is the “softest” of the commonly used woods and it is said to have a more mellow sound than, for example, hard maple. Usually that’s true. Sapele, which is the only wood available for the Crescendo, is somewhat darker than maple but not nearly as much as walnut.
Taking all this in is a lot to absorb, I know. If money were not an object, based on all I’ve written and what you have, I’d go with the FH over the Crescendo. There is a caveat to that though; harp technique’s a fairly long learning curve so financially it might make sense to me (not someone else of course) to get a Ravenna and keep it for a second harp down the road.
I’m usually very hesitant to offer specific recommendations but from all you have written I will go out on a limb and suggest the FH out of the three Dustys.
Have fun whatever you decide and tell us what happens!
Biagio
These Paki harps have earned a reputation as been pretty poor, though I think the quality control has improved somewhat recently and I’ve seen a few that with some tweaks are quite nice. The levers are still pretty bad IMO and – an important consideration – most harp makers will not bother with any repair down the road when they almost undoubtedly will need it, as most harps will sooner or later. The Paki harps frankly sooner.
I think there are two questions to ask oneself before buying a harp: are you seriously interested enough to invest in a really good one or are you (like most of us at first, I’d bet) only interested enough to find out?
In the first case there are excellent harps ranging from $2500 to $5000+. In the second case the choices are more limited – the Backyard harps, Harpsicles, and a few others. One option would be a kit – Music Makers Voyageur model is a favorite of several teachers for student rentals.
Biagio
Sorry, just one more opinion on this subject – and it’s only my opinion and my ears…..
Just listened again to the DS sound samples of the Ravenna 34, FH34 in walnut, and the Crescendo. I don’t know about you, but the two with laminate boards (Ravenna and Crescendo) sound a bit tinny in the treble, the Crescendo and FH are very rich and resonant in the bass, more than the Ravenna. The FH has more sustain and more overtones than the Crescendo, however. How much that is worth to you – well, depends. “Will this be your one and only harp for the foreseeable future?” would be my personal question to myself. After some fifteen years of making harps my own answer is “Not likely!”
A “tinny” treble is pretty much a given with those laminate boards for a bunch of esoteric reasons. Some of which vary a great deal from one to another of the same model and some can be ameliorated. So it’s back to that particular harp, I’m afraid.
More pennies from the geek,
BiagioI do agree with Donna on several points.Mainly that every harp is different – because every tree is different. Dusty’s quality control is excellent – as are Triplett and Thormahlen. And the Crescendo is a very good harp, no question there either.
Speaking now as a harp geek – the thing about laminate boards – IF you do them the right way – is that you will get great tone right out of the box. But that is where they will stay. Maybe not a bad thing if you like it as it is. A solid wood board will continue to expand over it’s life and the tone will continue to improve.
So which do you go for? This is a huge ongoing argument among harp makers – not rancorous but you’ll find pretty strong views, haha. My view for what it’s worth: in this situation if it were which of Dusty’s 34s I’d buy – well the Ravenna or the FH. But that’s just my view and how they sound in my hands. I know some around here who love their Crescendos and others who would give up their arms before parting with their bubinga FH.
I should admit to some bias as well: I have huge respect for Dusty but they are not my favorite harps. Given the chance I’d buy a Caswell Rhiannon in a heart beat and am still kicking myself for passing up on a second hand Triplett Eclipse. So again – it comes down to what you, the player, likes best.
Well, maybe only a pinky finger or two.
About a blind test…always a good idea. As a matter of interest: all of the Dusty sound samples were recorded live (i.e. no studio enhancements of any sort) and all played by the same person: Harper Tasche. He can make anything sound pretty good, but the point is that the sound samples are about as good a blind test as you can get. But that’s played in his hands, the real question is how it sounds and feels in yours.
Cheerio,
BiagioI haven’t tried the Boulevard, friends, as it does not interest me but I think anything they do will be good. It’s just a question of what fits the individual, in my view. Financially less than tone and your physique.
Here’s the deal on the Crescendo. It has an aircraft grade laminate sound board like the Ravennas, but a hardwood body like the FH series and the same strings. I don’t think it sounds any better than the Ravenna, and a case is not included, and it does not have the tone of the FH. So really in my view it is a harp sold for the looks – some people really value the hard wood look enough to pay $1500 more than the Ravenna and don’t want to pay $1400 more for an FH (Ravenna $1675, Crescendo $3375 with case, FH34 $4775). The Boulevard is also a laminate board.
If done well a laminate board is very good, and more reasonable on smaller harps than a solid spruce one. But getting up where you have more bass, if you have the money for it go for the solid wood board IMO. Professionals who have played my 34 tell me it’s as good as anything out there and it has a laminate sound board, but I KNOW it would sound better with spruce instead.
So there’s my two and a half cents:-)
Biagio
Hi Balfour and Celticknot,
So…I got curious about what Dusty is doing these days and went over to look at the FH34. Very cool: you now have a choice of all nylon down to the transition range OR nylon for the first 5 treble strings, then gut for 2 1/2 octaves (and back to the wound strings lower down).
Some time ago I asked Sue Mooers about whether they would ever start stringing with fluorocarbon or gut and the answer was “No, not for now.” So now gut is an option..and since they very kindly give you the detail for gut, in principle you could substitute Savarez Alliance FC for that if you wanted to.
The Ravenna 34 uses the same strings as the FH34 for the first three octaves; I’d guess that below that they’re lower tension on the Ravenna.
Dusty is pretty conservative so one would have to clear things to keep the warranty valid, but since you two seem to like those two harps…well, it’s a thought.
By the way, the Crescendo is strung the same as the FH. Personally I don’t like that one – sort of neither Dick nor Richard (Ravenna nor FH), but some do.
Biagio
Celticknot,
I think you will like the FH34 if that is what you decide. I have the case for it, which fits my (rather large) 26 and will fit the 32 string wire harp (if I ever get around to making it LOL). Pretty awkward at first when it’s new, at least for me. The corner at the base I have trouble with but after it’s been around awhile I think it will loosen up.
Many of the people I know eventually name their harps, though not all. In this house I have the “Selchie” sisters a 34 and a 26. I’m thinking of “Gwalchmai” for the wire 26. That was the name of a tiny double strung but I gave her away so guess I can use the name again:-) For myself, the name comes to me eventually…or not.
Gwalchmai is Welsh for the may hawk; the Selchies or Silkies are Irish mythic shape shifters – seals in the water, humans on land.
I like the sea and used to do raptor rescue, what can I say:-)
Please be sure to let us all know what you decide, this is a fun conversation!
Biagio
Aw shucks Balfour and Celticknot.
I fell in love with the harp at an advanced age so like any doting lover really like talking about it:-)
Playing in the dark is lots of fun, good reminder for me to do that more often! Speaking of history…the blind harper Turlogh O’Carolan had only studied for a few years before setting out and playing for the lords and ladies of Ireland and England. We don’t know his choices for harmony, only the melodies but that brings up an interesting point.
I’d suggest that they were probably minimalist since he played a wire strung; on that kind of harp you really don’t need the big arpeggios that you often hear on gut/nylon because the wire has such incredible sustain.
Much as I love Kim Robertsons artistry, by the same token, a lot of Celtic music sounds wonderful on nylon/gut played that way, and some classical repertoire too – Beethoven’s Ode to Joy or Brahm’s Lullaby for instance.
I’m thinking that blind “harperists” actually have a leg up over those of us who are sighted!
Biagio
CelticKnot, picture the harp as a triangle. viewed from the side. We have the neck which has the tuning pegs and levers or discs, the pillar or column for supporting the string tension (and on a pedal harp houses the bars leading to pedals and the disc mechanisms) and last the sound box – think of that as the hypotenuse. The strings typically meet the sound board (on the top of that box) at an angle of anywhere from 20 to 40 degrees. A smaller angle makes a taller harp, a larger one a lower headed one. Taller harp means more sustain, all else being equal.
I guess you could say that higher tension gives a nice tone with a lighter touch than a lower tension but as usual “it depends” on a lot of things. For comparison purposes let’s just consider tension on the first through fifth octaves since tension increases the lower you go in the bass. Typical averages over those 36 strings:
Orchestral pedal instrument: 35-40 lbs.
Medium tension folk harp: 24-28 lbs.
Celtic Style: 20-25 lbs. (for very fast playing and narrow spacing)
Light tension: 18-20 lbs. Harpsicles, bray harps, some travel types
Typical brass wire strung: 25-30 lbs. (Surprise!)
South American: 15-18 lbs. (Surprise #2)“Surprise” is that it does not take much strength at all to play those but they are usually played with the nails, the others with the finger pads.
I haven’t measured Dusty’s FH34 but from playing it I’d say it is in the “medium” range (24-28 lbs.).
Carlos Salzedo and Marcel Grandjany were two masters who developed styles that are well known and practiced these days on orchestral harps (there are others as well). So you hear people saying “I play Salzedo style” or “I’m French school”. It pretty much comes down to often subtle differences in how you use your hands, but the main thing is that they’re developed for those high tension gut strings in an orchestral setting. A harp in that setting needs a big box and high tension that can be played with great strength to get enough volume to be heard over those darn wind instruments.
No reason not to use those techniques on other harp styles (just don’t try to use the same force), or for that matter not to play South American style on a pedal harp. Alfredo Ortiz and Catrin Finch do sometimes, I’m sure that others do too!
First off though is to develop YOUR technique on YOUR harp, then by all means try others! A teacher is absolutely invaluable.
Biagio
