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Hi Hearpe, I think there may have gone something wrong when you posted your previous mail which you are now missing. Namely, when one uploads a message, it reaches all the subscribers. And as no message of yours about a non-harp subject reached me, it will have reached no-one…, so I guess your post which you are missing now somehow did not reach the forum when you tried to submit it.
There are no bullies here on this forum! Any one who tries to bully will be taken care of. No worries. So just relax and, like all the rest of us and have a great time here!
Hi Biagio, there may be a difference in the economical worth of second harp mass produced harps and the relatively rare harps of harp builders of a certain standing.
Older harps sometimes have levers that don’t function as nice as modern levers (and you know how expensive it is to get new, modern levers on an old harp: removing the old hooks or levers, filling the old gaps and getting it cosmetically ‘right’, drilling new gaps, putting new levers on, especially if one doesn’t dare to perform this oneself).
Hi Hearpe, you may be convinced that I am wrong as to prices of used harps, but I bought both my second-hand harps (of Camac and Salvi) at a reputable harp store for just a bit more than half of the original prices. Of course, private sellers may be hoping to get a lot more for their harps, but I think this is usually not going to happen if the potential buyer knows a bit about the harp market (and doesn’t mind an occasional ding or little scratch).
And yes, more than twenty(!) years later my second hand harps still are in a fine condition…
And no, I would not dream of buying a harp from ebay without being able to try it out first.
An advantage of buying a used harp from a reputable harp shop is that it is usually revised and in a neat condition, before being sold again.
As to Mikel Celtic harps: here:http://www.mikelceltic.com/worldwide-dealers/ you find a list of dealers of these harps.
I may be tempted to buy one from Thomann.de as they have a fine customer service, were it not that the travel harp I seem to like most at the moment, will be a (second hand) Camac Bardic.
By the way, if you live in Europe and think of importing a harp from a non-European country, you may end up paying a lot more money than the original price, as one has to pay VAT, shipping costs (including VAT on shipping costs!) and some other additional costs.
Hi Hearpe, you are writing about the Pakistani ‘Roosebeck harps’, but the subject is the Pakistani Mikel Celtic harps. I think one cannot compare them in quality and it would really be a pity when people would mix these harps up.
For the price you mention for the Roosebeck harps, you’d get a real nice sounding second hand harp from a reputable manufacturer, that is to say, if you don’t mind it has several years of harping experience behind it.
Now, can we please go back to the original question, namely Mikel Celtic Harps?
Hi Balfour, when you talk of (chromatic) cross strung harps, you mean the 7/5 strung cross harp. There is also the 6/6 strung harp, which is reasonably popular in Germany and which can be played in all keys. I think highly chromatical fast pieces of music may be more easily played on a 6/6 than on a pedal harp. There is so much more to playing the harp than only glissando’s.
But I think, the real point is that all kinds of well made harps have their own advantages and disadvantages. Some music sounds better or is played more easily on one kind of harp and other music on another kind of harp. Some pedal harpists like to play as well on their lever harp(s) or cross strung harp(s)!
There are so many variables that determine the sound and feel of a harp, that it isn’t useful to only discuss the soundboard.
Anyway, by now you will have discovered that most other harp makes than the 19 string Paki one you own now, will last longer and sound better.
The best thing you can do, is go to as many harp shops and harp tastings as possible and find out what kind of harps you really like.
And congratulations on your Stoney End Eve 22!
I am trying to understand what you mean. I wonder if your question has something to do with string tension.
Lever harps tend to have lower string tension, which means that a string sounds longer when attacked with the same force then when a string of a harp with higher string tension is plucked.
Hi Biagio, I love your idea of such a simple but effective triangle-square harp. And the soundbox made from thin wood (or perhaps quality grade triplex?) instead of cardboard. And yes, using an appropriate string band design would give this little harp its best possible sound.
This idea may make the harp dreams of many people come true.
@srosano, Susan Rosano, this may be your personal opinion but your remark above criticizing your partner’s (!) competitor may equally well be biased, and in any case is very unprofessional on this forum.
I have no personal experience with cardboard harps. I read on the Yahoo Virtual Harpcircle that they are surprisingly sturdy and have a very light string tension. It’s a bit quiet, but that need not be a disadvantage in a dorm that you share with others. And it is very cheap if you build it from a kit. You may even put some levers on it (but personally, if I wanted levers, I would go for a harpsicle).
I found two nice youtube clips for the cardboard harp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErdABWr3pXY and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_xs2PIixA4You also mention the Harpsicle. Recently I had one in my hands and was tempted to buy one for travel, as it weighs very little and takes little space and it still sounds sweet. Its string tension is rather low though. Much lower than the tension of my own lever harps (with pedal gut string tension). Yet, like I said, I had to resist the temptation to buy it. I decided not buy it as I like a fuller sound and a firm string tension (and I already have two lever harps).
Were I to choose between a cardboard and a harpsicle, I would most certainly buy a harpsicle, and in particular the newest model which is a bit larger and has some improvements, like Rees levers instead of Robinson levers and the possibility of putting wrapped bass strings on it) in relation to the pre-2012 model). I would buy one with as many levers as fit in your budget).
When I would like to buy a reasonably priced small harp which really sounds great, I would go for a Camac Bardic 27. It is very sturdy, but it weighs more than twice the weight of the harpsicle and takes a bit more space. It is very transportable though.
You may find very nice second hand small harps for neat prices. I myself would look for them at reputable harp shops which revise them before reseslling. So I would never buy a harp unseen from the internet, as to avoid harps with a dull sound and/or expensive repairs because of (hidden) flaws.
Hi Laura,
You dream of an electric harp and you write: ” I’ve been wanting to learn the harp for years now”.My 2 cents: start learning to play a soon as possible on a decent harp within your budget. You may like to start with renting a harp first or to buy a second hand harp from a reputable harp shop.
If at all possible try to get your fingers on as many harps as possible. You will discover that there is not only a large difference in string tensions and the sound of the harp, but also in the way a harp ‘feels’ while you play. Some harps may feel comfortable right away to your back, arms and ‘front’ others will need some special measures to be played comfortably. By the way: stand harps with a round or a staved soundboard may play more comfortable than smaller harps with perhaps a square soundboard, but this is not always the case. So one needs to try harps ‘hands on’.
After a year or so of playing, you will know much better what you like and what you don’t like in a harp.
Why would you like an electric lever harp instead of an ordinary lever harp? The answer to that question may help you find out which kind of harp you would like to learn playing on while saving for your dream harp.
As English is a foreign language to me, I may have been not entirely clear.
I do think it is well possible to use harps made in an entirely different climate.
The point I was trying to make was that it matters if the wood is dried properly (many years or by a special procedure) and the temperature and moist in the workplace where the harp is put together are kept moderate. If this is not the case, one could be heading for trouble.
I am by no means an expert. But I do wonder under what climatological circumstances these harps are built. Is it in hot and moist air? Or under moderate airconditioning circumstances? And was the wood properly dried before it was used to make a harp of?
I must think of the stories I heard of travelers buying great guitars in Spain that explode soon after they got home (in a quite different climate).
A Dutch harpbuilder of good reputation (now sadly deceased) once told me he believed harps had to be used in the same kind of environment as they were built (he did have the wood he used properly dried, but dit not have an airconditioned workplace).
I was surprised to see that the two Mikel Celtic Harp of 27 strings (Aster and Saffron) with the lowest note a whole octave below middle C weigh 9 kilo… That seems very heavy to me.
@ balfour-knight, I do have a few years of experience with Savarez Alliance carbon strings, though on a very small scale.
A few years ago, I wanted to have a smooth transition between the wire strings and the gut strings on my small 34 string harp with pedal gut string tension.
after consulting a reputable harp repairer I use to order my strings from, who gave me great advice (and sold me the right diameters of carbon strings, as it is obvious that one cannot use the same diameters for different materials! I do know that there are some spreadsheets to calculate the right kind of diameters, but I simply prefer the insights of this harp repairer).I changed C-E below middle C from wire to carbon strings. I love them. They give a nice transition between wire and gut. As it is only a small harp, the lowest gut strings sound rather dull, as they are relatively thick for their length. So, after consulting the same reputable harp repairer about the right dimensions of the strings, I changed a few gut strings into carbon strings. I am glad I did. Now they sound less muddled and more clear. And besides, carbon is a lot cheaper than gut. Beware though that changing strings to a different diameter could mean that one needs to regulate the levers.
Would I use carbon gut on this very small harp also from, let us say middle C and higher? No, certainly not. I love the warmth and richness of tone of gut. Carbon strings are not warm at all, but to my ears can be a real solution for the lower strings where gut won’t sound good on a really small lever harp. Some carbon strung harps sound great, but these harps are especially built for carbon. I would not dream of restringing an orginally gut strung harp into a carbon strung harp.
Edit: just to make sure: I’ve got a larger lever harp too which is specifically designated for pedal harp gut and it has nice long lower strings on which pedal gut sounds fine (warm and rich). So, I won’t change these lower gut strings into another kind of string until I know enough of Aquila or Camac nylgut to want to have a small try when I need to put new strings on the lowest gut strings on this harp.
As I love to complicate things… in the posts above there is no mentioning of ‘nylgut’. Maybe this could be a reasonable alternative when one lives in an extremely dry area.
Beware, one needs to make a difference between nylgut of Camac and nylgut of Aquila/also sold as silkgut. The Camac nylgut is meant for harps with classic tension, while the silkgut is meant for harps with celtic tension.
