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Dusty delivers Ravenna 34 string harps with Camac levers as an (extra) option. Have a look at: http://manufacturing.dustystrings.com/harps/options/camac-levers/
You may like to prefer to sell your old Ravenna and buy a new one with Camac levers. This may be cheaper than exchanging the Loveland levers of your harp for levers of a different brand.
I love Suzanne Goldiman’s books for lapharp. My absolutely favorite book is her Pastime with Good Company: Elisabethan Songs and Dances,
They are relatively simple, but sound really nice. They could help to give your back your confidence.
Here: https://www.folkharp.com/33-19-26-strings you find a list with 138 books for lap harp. Of course, depending on where you live, you may like to order them from elsewhere.
One of the problems with the carved pakistani harp is that they seem to lack quality control. Google at exploding soundboxes, warping pillars and cracked necks in combination with these kinds of harps. Some people end up with more or less playable harps, some people are not so lucky.
As the OP says it’s a big frustration for her. She wrote e.g. that the strings go quickly out of tuning. This may have more to do with ill-fitting pegs, than with the strings themselves.
In addition to the information given above by Jaque, the trouble with the carved pakistani harps is that their soundbox is much too thick to make it vibrate with low tension strings and the neck much too thin to put strings with a bit higher tension on.
So, just love the paki harp as your first entrance to the world of harps and consider it to be a nice ornament.
As to very cheap, but playable harps with a pleasant sound. Have a look at: http://www.backyardmusic.com/Harps.html A little harp with a cardboard soundbox and low string tension but with a sweet, though a bit quiet sound. You can buy it as a simple kit ($ 149, as a ‘Apartment-Friendly / No Mess Fireside Folk Harp Kit‘ ($189) or as a completely finished harp. You can even have adequate levers on such a harp (they cost extra). You can find lots of examples of someone playing the backyard harp on the internet
And there are, of course, the Harpsicle series (preferably with as much levers as you can afford), a bit pricier, but still good value for your money and you can always sell it second hand later on. If you buy one second hand, preferably chose one from the newest generation (which has been on the market for several years now, they have better levers and a bit better sound because they have longer bass strings and some other extra’s)
While learning to play one of these, you can start finding out what kind of harp you would really like to have (think of kind of sound, string tension, number of strings and also how the model ‘feels’ while you are playing it. Some people have a problem with a square soundbox, others with the height of a harp) and start saving for it.
Another way would be to explore the rent-a-harp-programs.
I like Christoph Pampuch’s two albums with circle songs:
- Blaue Diamanten (this album contains circle songs which can be played as duets).
- Die zersauste Libelle
You can find examples of these albums on his site. The explanations in the albums are in German.
Hi Elettaria, I work with Google Chrome on a Windows laptop and just like in your case, my messages suffer from something funny with the formatting.
I think that some knowledgeable people on this forum said that a nylon harp can’t be restrung with carbon or gut, mean that one can’t use a set of ‘standard’ strings because these may generate too great a tension (yes, Biagio, I am deliberately simplifying now). One does need to calculate the right diameters for the kind of string one wants (and any harp maker can do this for you. Though, frankly, I would like to buy the harp that already has the exact kind of strings that I want. And yes, indeed the harp model determines the sound of the harp for a great deal, but don’t underestimate the kind of strings. Before buying, many moons ago, I thought I wanted a nylon strung harp, but in the shop I heard the same (second hand) harp model strung in nylon and strung in pedal gut, next to each other, played for me by a professional harpist. The difference in richness of tone schocked me and so, I bought the pedal gut strung harp. By the way, maybe the difference in tone has a lot to do with the fact that my 38 string harp is very heavily built. A lighter built harp may sound much better in nylon, perhaps even better than gut…. When you want to get an idea about the difference in the kind of wood used, have a look here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1MSIaq2YmU
Hi Biagio, I completely agree with you… But to place my earlier remark in context: The OP thought that for beginners nylon strings were the way to go. I simply tried to explain that adult beginners have much more options than limiting theirselves to nylon.
Hi Biagio, you wrote: ‘<span style=”font-family: ‘Open Sans’, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;”>No offense, Wil, but I completely disagree about that “first harp” being gut strung'</span>
But I wrote: ‘<span style=”font-family: ‘Open Sans’, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;”>I don’t think nylon is the way to go for adult starters on the harp. I really see no point.’ So, I did not advise the first harp to be gut strung. I just don’t believe that nylon would be the obvious choice for an adult beginner. Perhaps nylon, carbon or (folk) gut or even pedal gut would be a good idea, but IMHO, it all depends on one’s preferences and the strenght of ones (adult!) fingers. In the case of children or people with muscle problems or over flexible joints , I think nylon or carbon strings with rather low tension, may usually be wiser, but here we are talking about an adult who did not mention certain problems with her hands.</span>
As for the rest, I agree with you (as usual 🙂 .
@ Elettaria, I am sorry, but there is real difference in the quality of carbon strings. Take for example Savarez Alliance: their lower strings have a different structure from their higher strings and from strings of other carbon string manufacturers. Besides, my carbon strings keep their colour relatively well, I heard of other carbon strings of which the colours tend to disappear in time.
I don’t know what you mean by the Hermine having notoriously low tension. As far as I know, the Hermine has a normal light tension. The Hermine harp is pretty popular, at least in Europe… I don’t recognize your ‘<span style=”font-family: ‘Open Sans’, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;”>apparently a bit patchy in terms of quality’ at all…. </span>Perhaps your hired harp was not properly taken care of and (partly?) strung with non-original carbon strings?
You also wrote: ‘<span style=”font-family: ‘Open Sans’, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;”>A nylon strung harp probably won’t, from what luthiers in this forum have said, as fluorocarbon is higher tension than nylon’. </span>
I am sorry again, as Biagio, who is really knowledgeable on the technical aspects of harps and harp strings, already explained in this thread why one can’t say that one type of string has more tension of itself than another type of string.
As to changing one type of string for another: you may end up to have to install several other levers. Just think of the difference between the both carbon strung Camac Isoldes (one with folk tension, one with classic tension): when going from one type of string to another, one would need to change the levers as well (which is rather pricey….).
By the way, every professional luthier can calculate which strings of a certain type would sound best on a certain harp.
You write: ‘<span style=”font-family: ‘Open Sans’, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;”>They make the Isolde with a choice of medium or low tension’ </span>
I think there may be some difference in thinking on what low tension or medium string tension is. This is quite understandable, as the experience of ‘low’ and ‘medium’ is very subjective. To be able to compare string tension on harps, one should use the kind of technical aspects, Biagio already mentioned. The point is, some people, who are used to pedal harp tension, call medium tension on lever harps low tension. There is a large difference between the real low tension of Rees harpsicles and the Noteworthy County Kerry harps and the kind of low tension on some, but in no way, all Camac (carbon strung) harps.
Finally, another aspect to keep in mind: shipping one single harp is very expensive. When ordering a harp from an importer who imports several harps at a time, it may be cheaper to order from such an importer than importing oneself. And then, there’s of course the import taxes and the VAT.
I found a harp dealer in NZ that carries Dusty harps. As you more or less seem to be looking for a nicely priced decent quality harp, you may like to have a look at the Dusty Ravenna 34 strings at: https://secure.zeald.com/kbbmusic/results.html?q=dusty At the moment it costs: <span id=”product_price_DUSRAV34FL” style=”color: #4d4d4d; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.88px;”>NZ $4,680.00</span><span style=”color: #4d4d4d; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.88px;”> </span><span class=”gst” style=”color: #4d4d4d; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.88px;”>incl GST.</span>
More about this model on: http://manufacturing.dustystrings.com/harps/models/ravenna-34/
It’s a nylon strung harp with intermediate tension.
This shop also carries more expensive Dusty harps. Even the FH36S…
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While saving for the harp of your dreams, you could have several years of joy with this real nice harp. And it is a very populair harp to buy second hand. So, you may end up a lot cheaper by buying this harp and selling it in a few years, than hiring a harp from a shop that only carries a harp line you are not fond of.Edit: I found that Harps & Harps in Australia also sells Dusty harps (as well a Camacs, so you could easily compare them).
Congrats with your ‘new’ hired Aoyama harp. This offers you the chance to find out what you really like and don’t like in a harp.
You say you don’t like the bright sound of the Aoyama harp. This is a nylon strung harp. I think it is very important for you to know that nylon strung harps sound fairly bright. Some kinds of wood can give a nylon strung harp a bit mellower tone., walnut giving the warmest tone, as as I know, and cherry also helps to get a bit warmer tone).
I don’t think nylon is the way to go for adult starters on the harp. I really see no point.
As to the very moist atmosphere where you live, and the warning of your local shop that gut strings may not be a good choice for your circumstances, I think you really need to research carbon strings. They are even less susceptible to moist than nylon, and they keep their lively tone a lot longer than nylon does. Their sound is to my ears a bit in between nylon and gut. There’s carbon strings and carbon strings. Carbon strings can be bought in different tensions and from different manufacturers. A lot of Camac harps can be bought with carbon strings. You do need to find out what their tension is. Several models have a rather light, others a rather a firm, tension. I’ve got several carbon strings (of Savarez Alliance) between my gut strings and the wire strings on my small 34 string harp to make the transition in sound beween gut and wire more gradual. I must say that gut sounds richer to my ears than carbon, but gut needs a certain minimum length to sound good, and on my compact harp the lower strings are just to short to sound really good with gut. So I use carbon strings there: they sound good, cost a lot less than gut and I never had one that broke, the only disadvantage is that it takes much longer for it to hold its tone, one keeps tuning and tuning and tuning…. Yet, I think it’s worth while.
I would not use carbon for the upper end of the strings, as it sounds to bright in my ears. I tried nylon at the upper end (much cheaper than gut), but they sound too shallow in my ears. This may has to do with the harp being built rather heavy, they might sound great on a harp especially built for nylon; I heard nylon sound much better on lightly built harps).
I already said it too many times, but one really needs to go to a harp shop and try the harps oneself. The sounds you like so much on youtube may have more to do with the acoustics of the room and/or the used audio equipment then of the harp itself…
I’ve got a sensitive back that I can keep happy by sitting much higher than everybody advises. I just sit at the edge of the (well padded!) stool, so that I can keep both feet firmly on the ground. I know there’s even a special chair on the market with a place to put one’s feet on while harping on a lever harp.
As to Camac harps: I love them, though I don’t like all models. These harps are sturdily built and have a great price/quality ratio. These models sound all different because of their design, their construction, and their stringing (some harps can even be bought with different stringing).
I understand that you think of harp strings with intermediate tension. In that case try to find out whether you prefer the sound of nylon, carbon or gut strings with (folk)tension on a certain kind of harp. By the way, I don’t think hard tension is a no no for beginners on the harp. I do think that one needs to have proper harp lessons in order to avoid injuries.
I do think one needs to try a lot of harps in one’s own hand before deciding which one is the harp of your dreams.
Edit: As to the number of strings: even when you don’t often play the highest or lowest strings, they add up to the richness of tone, as you can hear them sound in harmony with the strings you do play.
It may depend on the harp itself and other factors whether sitting higher up is a solution for large harps or not. I am very small and for me it is, with both my harps (a Camac with 38 strings and a Salvi with 34 strings). I play much more comfortable sitting higher up than on the hight I am supposed to sit on.
I think it is important to know which aspects of the Aoyama you would like to be different (and how you would want them to be different). This would help you to select the harp of your dreams
I googled a bit and it seems like Branddon Lassells in Australia is selling Camac Harps (and other harps). I heard he is very nice to work with. In your place I would call him and explain your situation. He may have some ideas which can help you further. Some harp shops offer the possibility that when you order a specific harp that they expect to sell anyway, you don’t have to buy it, when the harp sounds different from what you were looking for. You could also ask him to give you a call when a certain new harp arrives at his shop. All harp sellers I know (I don’t know him) are willing to play for you through the phone. This could help you find out if you like the harp enough to decide and go to Australia to put your hands on it, before you make a buying decision.
Hi Jenny, how exciting to be on a journey of finding one’s first own harp!
As to Camac harps I saw, heard and tried a lot of them. Just not the few new ones I am very excited of because of the very positive reviews I heard of other harpers… I love Camac harps (though not all models).
So, yes, I saw both the Aziliz and the Melusine (though not the concert one) and they would not be for me. The Melusine de concert seems to be little different, except for the price, from the standard one.
Once I even thought of buying the Aziliz, as for a 34 string harp, it is very suitable for travel. There are a few things to keep in mind though. It does sound quite different from a 38 string harp with rather heavy tension. It sounds a bit ‘folk like’. This is because the string tension of the carbon strings is quite a bit lower (you might change it into gut, but it then it needs to be gut of rather low tension) and the soundboard is much smaller. Just forget about using a low stool: It may hurt your back a lot (this is what happened to me with a rather low 34 string harp and I am 10 cm smaller than you are…). When you choose a small harp, you’d better want to put it on a kind of stable low table or something.
The Melusine 38 string harp has nylon strings, so it has a rather low tension. You really need to hear (life!) the difference between a 38 string harp with gut or carbon strings or with nylon tension. I never heard a large nylon strung harp with the fullness of tone of a large gut or carbon strung tension. I once heard a Melusine, but it did not steal my heart…
So, ask yourself what kind of sound you like: classic or folk (or in between) and what kind of tension feels good for you. There are several factors contributing to the sound of a harp. I am more inclined to choose for a lever harp that sounds more or like as a pedal harp, but as you mention the Aziliz and the Melusine, I think your taste may be quite different from mine…
Did you know the quite affordable Camac Isolde in folk tension has great reviews?
I myself am dreaming at the moment of the rather new 38 string model Camac Excalibur with a middle high string tension. I get the impression it is suitable for all kinds of music: both classic and folk. Of course one can play classic pieces on a folk tension lever harp and the other way round, it’s just a question of ‘feeling’ and taste.
Anyway, I would never buy a harp unseen. Even two exactly the same looking harps of the same model and wood sound different. You may like one and not like the other…
Also, some harps don’t feel nice in one’s arms. This may have to do with the angle the harp makes or with the width of the soundboard or the soundboard being square instead of round etc.
O, and by the way, I would definitely also want to try a Lyon & Healy harp as well…
So, in short, I know it is very hard for you to go to a harp shop, but it is definitely worth while. So, perhaps you could combine a vacation with visiting a harp shop?
