Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
The dead string can be either string or lever. If a Loveland is not very firmly fastened to the neck, it will cause the string to be dead. Most people install them with a hex socket head machine screw, usually requiring a 5/64″ ball end hex driver to loosen/tighten. There are many other fasteners available now, so Dusty may have changed to something else.
Using the appropriate driver, tighten the screw fully. HARD. As hard as you can turn with the typical small handle driver, without bending the driver shank.
The other place Lovelands can be loose is the nut that tensions the handle movement. It must provide enough friction. The lever should be just shy of feeling hard to move. Lovelands do not flip easily and freely, like, for instance, Truitts. If they move that easily, they will be loose enough to absorb sound, and the string will be dead.
Much less likely, but worth a careful look are that the lever body is parallel with all the others, and that the groove in the handle exactly meets the string as it is moved without pushing the string sideways.
Loveland levers were the absolute best when they were developed 30?? years ago. Their design is surpassed by several other makers–some of whose levers cost 3-4 times as much. They are not as “transparent” when engaged as some of the others, but some others also have different design weaknesses. On a light tension (and budget-minded) instrument like the Serrana, they are perfectly fine.
If it is not the lever, there is the tiniest possibility it is a string flaw. Nylon strings used on most lever harps are extruded and used as they come from the extrusion die. (Pedal nylons are “rectified” or ground to more perfect consistent cylinder shapes, with “in-between” diameters available, and a more matte finish.)
Modern extrusion is very consistent in diameter, but one occasionally finds strings that ring false, trying to play more than one note, because of varying diameter along the length. If one of those varying places just happens to hit where the lever closes, I can imagine causing a dead string. But I think something loose on the lever is FAR more likely.Regarding the finish, a photo is needed to tell for sure. If it is on the column, that looks like a piece of carbon fiber tubing. If it is bare tubing, a car wax/polish should take it off, unless it is a deep scratch. If it has finish sprayed on the tubing along with the wood of the harp, it can either be 1) a white mark _on top of_ the finish, or 2) an abrasion _of_ the finish layer itself, or 3) a dent/scratch/crackle _through_ the finish. Each cause requires a different method of repair.
Regarding lever regulation, IMHO, the harp should be delivered properly regulated, either by the factory, or by warranty service from the dealer. No regulation (or tuning) is perfect. But if the harp is very carefully tuned with all levers down, then checked with double octaves played (three strings spanning two octaves) up the scale, and it all sounds good, then you should be able to raise _all_ the levers, repeat the test with octaves, and those will all sound good as well. That requires all the levers to be accurate within about 1-2 cents, and is a “worst case” for checking regulation. Under normal use, if each lever raises the pitch within 3-4 cents of a semitone, you should be fine, and you probably shouldn’t try regulating further yourself.
Lily, I started to remark earlier that your English reads idiomatically _in every respect_ like a native speaker. It never entered my mind that you were not a speaker from birth until you mentioned it. Even the way you informally punctuate with dashes and form longer sentences reads perfectly without any hint of its being a second (or third) language.
Your ear is working!
(And I’ve always guessed that the reason “everybody” has to speak English is because if they ever want to communicate with anyone from the US for any reason whatsoever, they have to use English. 😉 And I’m among those with little/no other language. )
They are usually marketed as “console humidifiers” and the larger ones look like a piece of furniture. The wicks will need replacing depending on the hardness of your water.
You can also do a similar thing for a whole house if you have a forced air HVAC system. Aprilaire is the largest brand for those. Or Honeywell and Carrier make a model for central forced air that is water vapor evaporated by electricity directly–no droplets for that kind either. I’ve had the Carrier unit for years; it is rated at 30+ gal per day if that much is needed. During the “polar vortex” just before Christmas, it ran much of the time, but kept the whole house at 50%.
A church I was working in at the same time was running at 5%. That church used to have central humidification, but didn’t fix it when it broke years ago. Too expensive. I wonder how expensive it will seem when they have to replace the soundboard and pinblock in their 9′ Steinway, let alone repair the $2M pipe organ. A couple of years ago, a customer had well over $100,000 damage to an organ from low humidity when a polar vortex came through–and someone turned up the heat to make the building “feel” comfortable–and that part of the organ was in the back of the room at the top of the balcony. It passed 95 degrees in the organ, and the windchest had splits you could put a finger into that were once solid wood.
The largest danger to harps is changing humidity, not the exact level. If you stay low winter and summer, as in arid areas, keeping to 20-30% can be fine. What you don’t want is 80-90% one week, and 10% the next, which can happen in some areas (like the southern US around last Christmas).
I think that your first step is a good quality humidity monitor, under the bag with the harp. Then see what you need to do. The cold water droplets leave white dust from minerals everywhere, and do dispense droplets. They also cool the air as they evaporate. Steam comes off as a gas, and stays as a gas. The minerals stay in the water. But it takes energy to boil the water. But then it takes the same energy to evaporate the cool mist. The air is just reheated by your heating system.
Higher humidity so much reduces the need for heating to feel comfortable that we went with whole house some years ago. No more dry nose, fewer colds, lower utility overall. One of the best things we ever did.
I think that any method needs the capacity to hold humidity at a desired level. It is hard to imagine any passive evaporation system doing very much, whether under a harp bag or not. And every time the cover comes off, you’re back to what is in the room. We leave plant trays under our orchids also–it helps some, but in an open room and house, not much, unless you have a _lot_ of plant trays.
The Ravenna 34 is a great harp to rent and see what works. I’d call it medium tension, so you’ll have lots of opportunities to see how your fingers hold up. And it won’t be much of a change in string spacing if you play some on your teacher’s pedal harp at lessons.
As you play the Ravenna, you _might_ find that you want it higher off the floor. At least use a shorter chair or stool to play. Many smaller lever harps, when played off a regular chair, leave you in a strange bent over position, with arms angled down toward the floor to put your hands in the middle of the strings. And that angle makes the finger technique harder also. You and your teacher can see what works. It also depends on your height. But find a place where you can be reaching out level with the floor to reach the middle of the strings.
No, not impossible at all. Recognize that music from that era will require significant arranging to play at all on lever harp, and it will not have the harmony nuance of the original.
For instance, that very piece pops up in a search on YouTube in an arrangement for lever harp by Barbara Brundage. I’d suggest you search YT for “Massenet Meditation Brundage” Look at the video from MuckleMusic. You can watch and see how often the harpist pauses, reaches up to change levers, then continues. The arrangement is by a masterful and skilled arranger for lever harp, and is greatly simplified from the original.
If that would match your dreams of playing, you’ll be fine with lever harp. Now, light and medium tension harps do not sound like a concert tension pedal harp. Both can be equally nice, but it is a different sound. I’m not really familiar with the different Camac models (maybe @WIL-WETEN will see this post)
I would very seriously consider a used harp or renting one from your teacher. Buying new, yes you can sell it later–and get about half what you paid. There is little further depreciation on a harp after about 2-3 years old as long as it is in good shape. That is a much less expensive way to experiment.
I’m in the US, and wouldn’t think twice about travelling to a neighboring state to find a harp shop. The nearest to me is 200km, and the next nearest is 900km. I don’t know EU laws, but isn’t travel relatively easy?
So, I’d suggest first checking with your teacher and her network of harpists to see if someone has something for sale or rent. See how that works for you for a few months. Then maybe travel if needed to find a used instrument in good shape that speaks to you. There are a number of posts on these forums about what to watch out for in a used harp.
None of those will likely be white. But you will know exactly what you do and don’t want when you order your custom white harp. If you were in the US, and wanted a fine-sounding lighter tension harp, I’d say look at Rees. You can see/hear those played by another master lever harp arranger Ray Pool. (Some of his videos are on pedal harp, some on Rees). His YouTube channel is rharp111. That will also give you an idea of what changing levers quickly, fluidly, and musically looks like.
Congratulations on your decision! You asked for thoughts/opinions, so here goes. First, you mention wanting to play classical/opera. I am not sure if you mean arrangements of opera tunes or if you mean opera harp parts. Likewise for “classical,” there is much literature originally for harp, and much that is transcription mostly from keyboard instruments.
_Some_ baroque and classical period music can be played on a lever harp. Most of it requires either that you be very good at arranging or flipping levers quickly, or both. Very little of the main “classical” harp literature, which would be romantic and modern periods, can be played on lever harp. I’m not here to start a flame war. So, if Debussy, Ravel, and Saint-Saens is what you want to play — you need a pedal harp eventually. Even Bach’s Prelude in C from Well-tempered Clavier is _very_ challenging on a lever harp. Lever harps don’t have the ability to make all the notes needed, and can only play in a limited set of keys.
Second thought: you don’t mention a teacher. I don’t think you can learn proper technique well enough to play classical without a trained teacher to guide. Harp is an easy instrument to make a nice sound on from the very beginning. It is a fun instrument to play a tune with some simple accompaniment, and it sounds great nearly from the beginning. But, it is not an easy instrument to master well enough to play keyboard transcriptions or original compositions for harp. Specific hand positions and finger techniques have been worked out over time that allow playing the music, but they are nothing like what most people try to do when they sit down at a harp without guidance.
Yes, fragile skin, especially if you don’t develop callouses, probably means you will be with lighter tension harps. And those are all lever harps.
What pieces, in particular, would be what you think your “reachable” goals are? What would be your “dream” goal to play? And what country are you in?
You need to have the action looked at by a professional technician. I can tell you a few things, though. The white is corrosion. It appears to be on the brass parts, leading me to suspect it may be zinc oxide coming out of the brass alloy. I have seen that in items exposed to long-term moisture and also sometimes with gas heat.
All corrosion is abrasive. To the extent that there is corrosion inside the bearing surfaces or steel corrosion inside the rivets, every motion the action makes leads to fast wear. This is the opposite case of your greased harp.
A professional technician needs to look at the harp and either disassemble, clean, and lube, or at least get it lubricated.
Where are you located? Maybe someone on here knows a good technician near by.
No reason to think anyone was hiding anything. The mechanism must be lubricated. If it sat mostly for years, it probably wasn’t serviced, lubricated, or regulated on a schedule either. It may have had some tiny noises. If they go away with grease, then they weren’t very bad to begin with. And certainly, for a small enough motion in a bearing between parts, grease will certainly muffle the noise of any movement.
The excess grease is messy, but won’t hurt a thing–and it is much better than a dry action. That would wear out in short order, if you play much.
Think about it: harp actions work for decades with professionals playing hours every day, playing literature that requires constant pedal changes.
Wipe any excess grease off that you might get your hands into and ignore the rest until it starts to get dried out (8-10 years maybe). At the normal regulation and service you have done every few years, ask the technician. Opinions vary on whether to use grease or oil and where–but all metal on metal parts must have some lubrication, and either grease or oil is far, far better than none at all.
Spend your worrying about which etude to work on next 🙂
The harp mechanism is steel: rivets, linkages, shafts, etc. with a few brass parts. Yes it should be greased or oiled at all times, else it will rust and bind up.
Perhaps @carl-swanson will add some in here. Technicians differ in how much grease or oil, and where to use grease or oil. Yours has a LOT of excess grease, and I would be using oil in those linkage/rivet places (grease on the spindle bearings) but it is not dangerous or wrong, just a bit messy if you get your hand on it. You can safely wipe off the excess globs with a clean, lint-free cloth, if they will get on you, otherwise, leave it be. Do not try to get deep in the mechanism or get every bit. The moving parts need lubrication–where they move. They don’t need globs–but it won’t hurt anything.
The only concern I have looking at it is wondering who put that much on, and what they were trying to accomplish. Did they not know better? Just the way they have always done it? Or is there a slight rivet click or two that they were hushing up? In any case, there is no immediate cause for concern, nor anything to do about it.
Yes, you are correct. Some people use the word “false” more broadly.
And I wrote the post somewhat hurriedly also 🙂
Regardless of string material, it is absolutely possible for a single string to sound duller, brighter, make only a dull “thunk” compared to strings around them. Any string over 1-2 yrs old has increasing odds of sounding false, however, some sound false right out of the package (even nylon monofilament).
It is also possible (not even uncommon) for a string to sound out of tune with itself when the harmonics are out of tune with the fundamental. Even for new extruded (not rectified) nylon this happens fairly often. It is even more common with gut, though less noticable.
And I’m not trying to discourage you at all. But you need to know that you are on uncharted territory, and will have multitudes of factors to balance out.
The technical information is freely available for how to do the calculations. Most of the math was established by 1800.
The closest thing ever built to what you propose is a historic harp from the earliest ones late 1700s, basically the predecessor two generations prior to today’s modern pedal harp. A few of those are still extant in original condition, and some have probably been measured in museums. The string lengths are probably different from what you have, because your 40-string was designed _after_ the standard 47 string, and is designed to use the same strings.
Howard Bryan had restored a few of those before he retired, and some others have also.
But even that historic example will only be a sign pointer or “reality check” for what you would design.
OK, I’m completely gobsmacked. That has to be one of the most idiotic things I’ve ever seen.
1) I was wondering what that steel piece was inside your harp. He intended to fasten the strings to that, then pass them through the soundboard. Without lateral support, it would never hold the tension, and would ultimately be pressing against the board one way of the other anyway.
2) The action of the harp is designed to come into regulation with the board bowed up slightly. It would never be in regulation without that pull-up, especially in the bass, where there is little adjustment available.
3) Plywood of seven layers of veneer, glued with contact cement. Except that right at the center, where the forces are at their strongest, three layers are cut away in the center, leaving two veneer layers top and two bottom. Of those, at least half run grain vertical.
That leaves you with two veneer thicknesses (usually 1/48″) to hold the tension. My 29! string lever harp has string tension near 750 lbs. A pedal harp is around 2000 lbs.
You are looking at the soundboard. Will it support you and four friends standing?
Throw that board away or try finishing what he started if that interests you.
Regarding designing a special stringing, it can be done. You will need string thickness gauge charts for the brand strings you want to use, or charts of standard constructions for types of strings. You will need a thorough understanding of the Mersenne/Taylor equations and how to use them. You will need to understand how a pedal harp is regulated.
Most of all, you will have to know how to evaluate and test the result for success according to your goals for the instrument. There is no simple formula. Saying “tell me how to build a harp” is like saying “tell me how to build an automobile”. Do you want to go fast? Do you want good mileage? How many passengers? How much cargo room?
Wikipedia will get you a start https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_vibration
Sligo harps has information on building and designing harps.
I can send you a stringing calculating spreadsheet. But it only does the tension calculations. It won’t help you decide how to graduate the diameters or choose a stringing material. There is no information available on how to modify the action of a pedal harp to correctly sharpen smaller gauge strings. All of this is all harp design, and is specific to each builder. In this case, you would be the builder.
What you entertain with designing a soundboard, designing a stringing, and making it all work on an existing pedal harp action would be an advanced research design project for ANY harp builder in the world. You should expect to blow a couple of soundboards (or make them too thick) and restring several times before you get it right.
To be that many Hz off (not cents) is too much. However, keep in mind that even the same number of cents deviation will produce twice as much deviation in Hz each octave you go higher. Even so, 7-8 Hz is way too much, but is actually closer than 2-3 Hz in the bass.
None of those things should be happening on a new harp.
If the levers have rough spots in the casting, it won’t matter which strings you use–they will wear away.
This is a warranty issue. Take it to the dealer and show them the damage, and ask them to check the regulation and see what they say.
