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Stardust, you seem to have contact with both Aine and Dave. This will only complicate things.
In your case, I would only contact Aine (and by phone, in order to try and get a proper solution). And then I would appeal to her being a reasonable person.
I don’t know how Dave is, but Aine O’Neill is representative of Camac harps and this means in general that in the eyes of Camac she may be considered to be a trustworthy commercial partner.I think Aine just needs a very clear image of the problems and about what is expected of her. I still believe that in the end, when she understands the full magnitude of the problem, she will do the right thing.
@ charles-nix, being right and collecting one’s right are two different things indeed, but the seller as well as the buyer are in the EU and here in the EU customer protection makes this kind of thing a lot easier (think of the very easily accessible EU small claims procedure).
No, unfortunately, the only way to get a message restored is to mail the staff.
This may help you next time when you try to reach a deal with Muzikkon: call them to negotiate an agreement. After you have reached an understanding, you write them a mail to confirm the content of what you have orally agreed and ask them to confirm that they have read your message.
The problem with emails, is that it is far easier to neglect what the other party says than when you’ve got someone on the phone. On the phone it’s also easier to ask what someone means (it’s obvious that Aine wants you to pay for Sally’s work on trying to get the harp to work like it should work when you first got it.) It’s also much easier for a shop to brush someone off by mail than when they have a human being on the phone.
I don’t understand why you asked about a clarification on the stringing of the harp when your goal was to get your money back for having received a poor product. This way you are making things very easy for Muzikkon to neglect your main question.
Sally was perfectly clear with her stating that the strings and levers are poorly fitted and that she had tried what she could, but there’s just nothing she can do to fix it, unless I get some different levers which she would be willing to replace for me. About the strings, there’s nothing to be done that wouldn’t cost more than you would be willing to spend on this harp. I think she meant you would be throwing good money to a product not really worth it, as Sally had stated the strings on the harp are very uneven in tension.
This is also very important: you stated before you bought the harp that it was very important for you that your lowest note as a C (a whole octave below middle C, I think). And Muzikkon replied that it was. Yet, now they state it shouldn’t be a C, but an F (below that C??? which would be rather odd for a 27 string harp…). It would make the strings feel like soft rubber bands… And if it was meant the F above, it would make the strings break even more often…
Anyway, now that you got the wrong information about the harp, now they are even stating that the harp should have a different range than it had when you got it, I think there is just the more reason to get a refund…
The fact that you didn’t ask you money back within a month, had to do with your faith in getting things fixed, as you were in contact with Muzikkon very soon after receiving your harp.
In the end, Aine as a reasonably person will understand that she will have to resolve this problem in a customer friendly way.
I can say from my own experience and of that from my harp friends that Camac harp gut strings are fine strings, so I really haven’t got a clue how that ‘another harpist’ came to her conclusion.
Something else, in the past, Bow Brand had twice a period of gut strings that often broke. With a bit of googling you may be able to find messages about that from Bow Brand itself and from some harp shops.
These strings may be very old and perhaps dried out and therefore be succeptable to breakage.
The place where the strings break can be telling: near where they come out of the eyelets, or near the levers or near the pin where you put the string through? Or at random?
The Camac Stivell was originally strung with folk gut from E4 to D26 (https://www.camac-harps.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Lever-string-chart-.pdf.
Does the harp still have plastic levers or already the sophisticated metal levers?
If you live in a very dry climate (less than 40% of atmospheric humidity) or a climate with a lot of changes in atmospheric humidity, you may consider restringing the harp with Aquila nylgut. It is much cheaper than gut and sounds almost the same, it is not succeptible to moist and it lasts way longer. Nylgut sizes are expressed in gut equivalent diameters, but they are a bit thinner, so you may end up in having the levers regulated (which after ten years, would be advisable, anyway).
Hi Stardust,
Yes, gut is rather expensive and breaks more easily than other kinds of strings. Nylon strings are cheapest.Universal levers are rather simple levers. I would very much prefer one of the more sophisticated levers, preferably from Camac (they sell them to small scale harp builders). They work very fast and well without changing . There are other fine levers like those of Truitt and Loveland. But they would make your harp even more expensive.
By the way, as Aine is probably rather busy, the problem of your harp may have slipped her mind. As it is already ten days ago that she must have received your mail, I think that in your place, I would call her and try to find a solution that is both acceptable to you and to her. She may not be aware that this Pakistan harp model comes with a structural flaw as the string tension is uneven and unbalanced.
Anyway, take your time to find the harp of your dreams. In Europe one can find so many different real quality harps for prices from 2200 euro (Camac Hermine 34 strings, nylon) and upward.
Edit: I just discovered that there was a Camac Harp event in Sweden in June 2018 : https://blog.camac-harps.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2018/04/sweden.png But I couldn’t find a Swedish store at: https://www.camac-harps.com/en/#
Edit: This seems to me good to know: https://blog.camac-harps.com/en/news/6e-edition-des-sweden-harp-days/ Apparantly, Camac comes to Sweden too, now and then. The great thing is that one can get the levers adjusted and have other small services performed for free.
Above the cost of the kit, come the costs of transport as well as VAT and Customs. As I hear the prices, I think Camac harps would be significantly cheaper and they are easier to sell later on.
Yes, Stardust, I do understand you are looking for a harp that would last you several decades, and it technically and economically, should, but musically, you may prefer a different sound after you have been playing for several years.
Stardust, I don’t know why gut is out of the question for you, but have you thought of nylgut? That is a synthetic string which sounds warm and richt, almost like gut, though a bit more clear than gut, but nylgut is much cheaper and seldom breaks.
Hi Stardust, all Camac harps are fine. Which one would suit you best, is a different matter.
The Hermine is the most popular Camac harp with its rather light carbon strings.Personally, I’d prefer the Camac Telenn with medium celtic gut strings (older Telenns had heavier strings and a bit different neck). Gut sounds warmer and richer than carbon. Both harps are nice priced.
A bit more expensive is the Camac Isolde. Most people choose the Camac Isolde Celtic. There are several other Camac harp models, but they all are more expensive.
If going to a Camac shop is not practical, you may start and listen to youtube clips.
Here: you can hear several Hermine clips of the Atlanta harpcenter at: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=atlanta+harpcenter+hermine
This gives you a first impression about how different harps of the same model can sound.
As for other clips, just google for them in youtube. If you can’t find clips from a model you are interested in, feel free to ask. We may be able to find some clips for you.
I mentioned Camac as Aine also sells Camac harps. By the way, there are a lot of other fine harp brands too.
I may have got the wrong impression, but somehow I thought thatSally built Voyager harps from a kit and then sells them, so you wouldn’t have to import a harp from the States.
Also, good to know, the very large European Music Center Thomann.de also sells Salvi Harps (see: https://www.thomann.de/se/harpa.html?sw=harp&price-first=0&filter=true&manufacturer%5B%5D=Salvi It ships for free from purchases of at least 199 eu. Beware though that they also sell Pakistani harps under their house name and ‘Roth & Junius’.
Hi Stardust, if you’re considering other harps, maybe Aine is more inclined willing to take the Paki harp back if you buy a Camac harp from her. Camac harps are really fine harps.
Hi Stardust, did you correspond with Aine O’Neill herself? Here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aineoneill/?originalSubdomain=ie you find more information about her.
She has become a representative for Camac Harps in September. She may be busy with the preparations of the Camac weekend in her new Camac showroom. More information: https://harpcolumn.com/event/camac-weekend-ireland-blessington-music/
Frankly, I think this is rather good news, as now, she has all the reasons to maintain her good reputation. By the way, Camac makes great harps.
So, in your case, I would mail her personally, or, if possible call her and try to work out a solution.
If Muzikkon remains silent, you might ask Sally whether nylgut or carbon strings would do at the bottom of the harp. These are not too expensive, and they might fit the eyelets of your harp.
Yet, I think you need to get your money back, because, after all, the uneven sound of this harp would never make you happy.
I don’t know whether this is possible for the Clark blades, but it may be worth a try: moving the blade in or out
I found this tip on Biagio’s article at: http://harp.wikia.com/wiki/Sharping_Levers_for_Harps .
You are right Biagio: “All the Dusty Strings harps are warranted against defects in materials and workmanship to the original owner for five years from date of purchase. The Ravenna is only warranted for two years. If there is a problem that is covered under the warranty, the harp will be repaired or replaced at no charge. Shipping costs to and from Dusty Strings in America are the responsibility of the owner. ”
So, perhaps the buyer should contact the original owner of that harp and try to work something out.
Edit: when I posted this message I had not seen the original poster had just posted a new message.
The picture is not very clear to me, but I get the impression the soundboard may be coming loose from the soundbox.
Yes, in your case, I would definitely contact the manufacturer and ask for advice.@ harplynx, if you can write in German, you may like to become active in harfenforum.de too. On that forum one regularly sees questions about improving Pakistani harps too. There is also a subforum where one could write in English at https://www.harfenforum.de/forum/viewforum.php?f=17
