Strings for classical music and fragile skin / hands?

[Lily-White]

Hi,

I have decided to make my long-time dream come true: Learn to play the harp! I am planning to buy a harp, a good quality harp, that I can enjoy for many many years. In my country we don’t have any stores that sell harps or similar, so I can’t go and try different ones, I have to choose from what I can find on the internet. It’s quite overwhelming, and the sounds of the recordings are difficult for me to compare.

I have been looking at Salvi’s Gaia: 
–   With the legs that come with it, it is high enough for me (I’m very tall)
–   It has 38 strings (that’s what I’m aiming for)
–   I like the design

I have one problem though. I would like to play mainly classical music and opera. And also therapeutic, meditative music. The pedal harp gut strings of Gaia would be good for classical music. BUT: I have very thin and fragile skin, which speaks for a harp that is lighter to play, kinder to the hands. Should I look for “medium tension” strings, instead of gut strings? Are they kinder to the hands? Would the sound still be right? The sound is the most important thing! I like a clear sound, not muddy.

Camac’s Ulysse is beautiful, has medium tension, but only 34 strings, and the harp is not high enough for me (no separate legs available). It’s very light and durable though, which I like. But the price is very high and I haven’t seen any reviews or similar, I don’t even know what kind of music it is for (?).
Of Camac’s concert harps I also looked at Mélusine and Excalibur, but Mélusine has VERY light tension, Excalibur heavy tension and also a “different kind of sound”. What all that would mean for me I don’t know anymore – this is quite overwhelming!
I love the timeless design of Camac’s Classic Isolde and Celtic Isolde. I think they are high enough for me and they have 38 strings. But Classic Isolde has very heavy tension strings. Celtic Isolde has medium tension, but the name tells me the sound is ideal for Celtic music? Camac’s Korrigan is very nice and high, with 38 strings, but has gut strings…
 
Another harp I noticed was Dusty Strings’ Ravenna. It has only 34 strings, but is high (with legs), it’s supposed to be light to play and sounds very nice to me, at least on the internet… Dusty Strings also have 36 string harps…

As crazy as it may sound, my long-time dream includes a WHITE harp, it really would mean a lot to me! I can get Salvi’s Gaia, Camac’s Ulysse, Excalibur and Concert Mélusine in white, not the other ones I have mentioned.

Buying a harp is a big thing for me. Does someone have experience with these harps – or other suggestions? I know I have to let go of something, make a compromise. I would be extremely grateful for advice, comments, ideas, thoughts, any help I could get. In case someone has read this far… 😀 

Thanks a million!

[charles-nix]

Congratulations on your decision! You asked for thoughts/opinions, so here goes. First, you mention wanting to play classical/opera. I am not sure if you mean arrangements of opera tunes or if you mean opera harp parts. Likewise for “classical,” there is much literature originally for harp, and much that is transcription mostly from keyboard instruments.

_Some_ baroque and classical period music can be played on a lever harp. Most of it requires either that you be very good at arranging or flipping levers quickly, or both. Very little of the main “classical” harp literature, which would be romantic and modern periods, can be played on lever harp. I’m not here to start a flame war. So, if Debussy, Ravel, and Saint-Saens is what you want to play — you need a pedal harp eventually. Even Bach’s Prelude in C from Well-tempered Clavier is _very_ challenging on a lever harp. Lever harps don’t have the ability to make all the notes needed, and can only play in a limited set of keys.

Second thought: you don’t mention a teacher. I don’t think you can learn proper technique well enough to play classical without a trained teacher to guide. Harp is an easy instrument to make a nice sound on from the very beginning. It is a fun instrument to play a tune with some simple accompaniment, and it sounds great nearly from the beginning. But, it is not an easy instrument to master well enough to play keyboard transcriptions or original compositions for harp. Specific hand positions and finger techniques have been worked out over time that allow playing the music, but they are nothing like what most people try to do when they sit down at a harp without guidance.

Yes, fragile skin, especially if you don’t develop callouses, probably means you will be with lighter tension harps. And those are all lever harps.

What pieces, in particular, would be what you think your “reachable” goals are? What would be your “dream” goal to play? And what country are you in?

[Lily-White]

Thank you SO MUCH for your answer CHARLES-NIX! It was a real eye-opener for me, I needed it! 🙂

To answer your questions, I can say for sure that I will never become a professional, a harp teacher, or play in an orchestra or similar. I LOVE beautiful pedal harps, but it’s highly unlikely that I would ever get one of those (price, size, etc.). That’s why I would like to go for a quality lever harp, with (at least) 38 strings, a harp that I could enjoy for a long time, without the need to upgrade.
 
I live in Finland (EU) and have already been in contact with a professional harp player, who would teach me techniques and similar. I want to get those things right from the very beginning, regardless of how far I get. Time will tell how far I get, but for now my goal is to be able to play for example “Méditation” from the opera Thaïs by Massenet, and other beautiful intermezzos, arias and classical pieces, as harp solos. So they would most likely be transcriptions, but if they are well made, I would have to accept that. I would play for the joy of it, at home. That’s my goal for now, and it’s very unlikely that it will change. So I’d play what you can play on a lever harp. I’m not a young girl anymore either, so I think there will be enough material out there for my needs / my future level. I used to play the piano years ago, for several years. Playing the harp is a long-time dream of mine, so I’m passionate about starting, like a little child at Christmas… 🙂

I have met with my teacher once already. I was on cloud 9 when she made me play a little thing on her pedal harp… That sound… <3
I asked her about what kind of harp I would get, but she thought it didn’t matter at this point, “you can always sell it and buy another one”. I understand her point perfectly, but we are all different, I would still go for something I can play Méditation and similar with, once I get that far… 🙂

I just wouldn’t want to buy a harp that I can’t play because of my fragile skin – or a harp that my Méditation and similar doesn’t sound good with. Is this an impossible equation?

[charles-nix]

No, not impossible at all. Recognize that music from that era will require significant arranging to play at all on lever harp, and it will not have the harmony nuance of the original.

For instance, that very piece pops up in a search on YouTube in an arrangement for lever harp by Barbara Brundage. I’d suggest you search YT for “Massenet Meditation Brundage” Look at the video from MuckleMusic. You can watch and see how often the harpist pauses, reaches up to change levers, then continues. The arrangement is by a masterful and skilled arranger for lever harp, and is greatly simplified from the original.

If that would match your dreams of playing, you’ll be fine with lever harp. Now, light and medium tension harps do not sound like a concert tension pedal harp. Both can be equally nice, but it is a different sound. I’m not really familiar with the different Camac models (maybe @WIL-WETEN will see this post)

I would very seriously consider a used harp or renting one from your teacher. Buying new, yes you can sell it later–and get about half what you paid. There is little further depreciation on a harp after about 2-3 years old as long as it is in good shape. That is a much less expensive way to experiment.

I’m in the US, and wouldn’t think twice about travelling to a neighboring state to find a harp shop. The nearest to me is 200km, and the next nearest is 900km. I don’t know EU laws, but isn’t travel relatively easy?

So, I’d suggest first checking with your teacher and her network of harpists to see if someone has something for sale or rent. See how that works for you for a few months. Then maybe travel if needed to find a used instrument in good shape that speaks to you. There are a number of posts on these forums about what to watch out for in a used harp.

None of those will likely be white. But you will know exactly what you do and don’t want when you order your custom white harp. If you were in the US, and wanted a fine-sounding lighter tension harp, I’d say look at Rees. You can see/hear those played by another master lever harp arranger Ray Pool. (Some of his videos are on pedal harp, some on Rees). His YouTube channel is rharp111. That will also give you an idea of what changing levers quickly, fluidly, and musically looks like.

[Gregg Bailey]

Hi, Lily! How very exciting for you to be considering your first harp! I’m a 40 year-old male musician in Texas (mainly organ, piano, and wind instruments) and really started my harp journey around early 2021. I have a growing lever harp collection. For now, my floor harp collection consists of the following models, from smallest to largest:

-Rees Grand Harpsicle (33 strings)
-Rees Brilliant Harpsicle (34 strings)
-Dusty Strings Ravenna 34 (I opted for lever gut strings)
-Preowned Lyon&Healy Troubadour V (36 strings)
-Salvi Gaia 38
-L&H Prelude 40

As you can see, I actually have two of the models you mentioned so can provide feedback on those–the D.S. Ravenna 34 and the Salvi Gaia. I love all my harps, but they are all VERY different from one another, which is why I have them!

I really like having the optional lever gut strings in the middle range on my Ravenna instead of the standard nylon strings, as the gut has a prettier sound to my ears while still having a quite bright tone for which Dusty Strings is known, and lever gut strings aren’t quite as tense as pedal-tension gut strings.

On the Salvi Gaia, all the strings ARE pedal strings, but they’re all quite a bit shorter than on pedal harps and larger pre-pedal harps, so I think the tension is slightly less on the Gaia than on, say, my L&H Prelude 40.

I absolutely love my Rees Brilliant Harpsicle, because it sounds very different from my Ravenna and is SO lightweight for a 34-string harp (a mere 15 pounds!). And, unlike the rest of the Harpsicle line, the Brilliant Harpsicle features medium tension and medium string spacing. Until fairly recently, Rees Harps offered the Brilliant in different colors, including white. I wonder if they would make you one in white if you very politely begged! Also, Dusty Strings occasionally uses white on their harps, so I wonder if they would consider making you a white Ravenna 34. Dusty Strings has occasionally painted/stained their concert-line harps, as well, which would include their 36-string models.

As for your fingers/skin, how did you feel trying your teacher’s pedal harp? That’s about as stiff as harp strings can be (not counting wire-strung), so if you felt ok with those strings, I wouldn’t think something like the Gaia would bother you.

When I play my Prelude 40, it makes me feel almost like I’m seated at a pedal harp, which I love!

I hope some of this helps, and I’m happy to answer any other questions you may have about my harps!

Happy harp hunting!

-Gregg

[Gregg Bailey]

Lily,

In addition, have you looked at all into the Musicmakers harps, particularly the 38-string Epic model? It has a very different look, but the large soundbox gives it an extra-full sound. Also, MariniMade Harps makes some amazing large lever harps, and three of their models go lower than any other lever harp maker I’ve come across:

-The Regency Robusto 38 goes down to the lowest G of the piano;

-The Roma Bella 40 goes all the way down to the lowest C on the piano (but unfortunately tops out at G, not even the highest note of typical 34-string harps);

-And their largest lever harp model, the Roma Classic 46, goes down to the bottom B of the piano, which is lower than even most pedal harps! That’s such a large harp that it costs what some small pedal harps cost. I get the impression that Marini Made uses medium-tension strings, but I’ve never seen anything on their website about the strings they use.

I just wondered if you’d heard of either of those makers.

-Gregg

[Lily-White]

Thank you @CHARLES-NIX for your reply! I have learned a lot from you, and you gave me a lot to think about. (I’m new to this forum and I can’t seem to tag you correctly…).

Those YouTube videos did not match my dream of playing at all, I can’t see myself doing that. The black sharps of the piano are so handy. So I got a bit scared there for a moment…

My harp teacher started with a pedal harp from the very beginning! That would be neat!
But let’s be realistic. My passion for the harp is still there, and the harp cannot be changed to another instrument, it’s the harp that makes my soul sing… I have a lot of work to do before I’m at “the Méditation level”. IF one day I reach that level, maybe I will use the levers, or even upgrade to a pedal harp. But for now it’s a lever harp. This is a wonderful adventure to me, a journey. I’ll take one day at a time and see where it leads me.

About rental harps: In a couple of weeks I will actually get a rental harp that I can use until I get my own. I’m very lucky, harps don’t grow on trees in my country… It happens to be a Dusty Ravenna, which suites me perfectly! 🙂

If I decided to travel, in order to try harps, I’d have to go the Netherlands. In Amsterdam there’s a shop that sells everything but Camac harps. Camac has their own store in Rotterdam. I’d have to spend about 3(-4) days there. I would get what I want, and it could be really fun and interesting. But also expensive…

Keeping all the above in mind, I’ll continue gathering information about which harp could be right for me and see where all this leads me.

[charles-nix]

The Ravenna 34 is a great harp to rent and see what works. I’d call it medium tension, so you’ll have lots of opportunities to see how your fingers hold up. And it won’t be much of a change in string spacing if you play some on your teacher’s pedal harp at lessons.

As you play the Ravenna, you _might_ find that you want it higher off the floor. At least use a shorter chair or stool to play. Many smaller lever harps, when played off a regular chair, leave you in a strange bent over position, with arms angled down toward the floor to put your hands in the middle of the strings. And that angle makes the finger technique harder also. You and your teacher can see what works. It also depends on your height. But find a place where you can be reaching out level with the floor to reach the middle of the strings.

[Lily-White]

Hi Gregg,

Thank you so much for your kind replies!!! 🙂

It was so encouraging to hear you started as an adult as well! And all those harps you have…

The first harp I fell in love with was actually the Rees Grand Harpsicle! I sent Rees an email with a question about it, and they recommended the Brilliant Harpsicle, because of its sound. I immediately asked them if they could make the Brilliant in white for me, but unfortunately it’s not possible anymore. They had one white left, but it was reserved. I was number 2 on the list. Unfortunately for me, the reservation wasn’t cancelled, so I didn’t get it.

I have also asked Dysty if they could make a Ravenna in white for me. You’re right, they did make one in black and white once, but they cannot make one in white for me. I really begged them… 🙂 Now I have been looking at their 36 string models, that could be more interesting in the long run, but I don’t think they would make those in white either. I’d have to ask them about it to be sure, I think I will. Or accept another finish!

I’m getting a rental harp in a couple of weeks, that I can keep until I get my own. And the rental one happens to be a Dusty Ravenna! I’m SO happy about this, even if the harp is black… 😀 It has nylon strings. The soundboard is made of birch from my country, which feels really nice! I cannot wait to start practicing!

So I have actually considered four of your models!

I played only a few notes on my teacher’s pedal harp, but it did feel like hard work for the fingers, from a skin point of view. I also got to play a Salvi Mia, with the same result (less, but still)… Something lighter would feel more safe. That’s why I started to doubt the Gaia, that seemed so perfect before.

I already had a quick look at the Musicmakers and Marini made harps. They were completely new to me, so thank you! The Marini made ones are quite heavy…

I will start to practice with my Ravenna, as soon as she arrives! And keep looking. Right now it seems like one of the Camac models I mentioned in my original post could be an option. I’ll try to get some more information about those as well.

It’s interesting that here people talk a lot about Camac and Salvi harps. They are European, maybe it’s as simple as that. In the US you seem to talk more about American harps, so it makes sense.

I set up an account here yesterday, posted immediately, and I have gotten this much help and support, I am SO grateful!

Thank you once more for your answers Gregg, they were so inspiring and encouraging! 🙂 / Lily

[Lily-White]

Good point! I loved your clear description of what happens if the instrument is too low. That was exactly what happened to me, when I tried to play some notes on my teacher’s Salvi Mia. I’m actually very tall (179 cm – the converter gives me 5 ‘ 10.47 :D). My rental Ravenna comes with 5 inches high legs. It remains to be seen if that’s enough… Thank you @CHARLES-NIX! 🙂

• This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by Lily-White.

[balfour-knight]

Hello Lily!

I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this entire thread. These are great posts from my friends Charles and Gregg, too! In addition to being a harpist, I love to bake, and my favorite flour to use for this is White Lily flour, ha, ha! It is very light and makes delicious cakes, cookies, biscuits, scones, rolls and breads. So I had to tell you that your name sounds delicious, and I love the idea of you having a white harp!

I enjoyed owning a nice Ravenna harp, mainly for gigging, over a period of about five years. I think it is the perfect harp for you to start out with, even though I do agree with Charles about you eventually desiring a pedal harp for what you want to play. Also, Gregg made the point that playing a L&H Prelude almost feels like playing a pedal harp, only without the convenience of the pedals.

My favorite pedal harp is a concert grand 47-string Atlantide Prestige, made by Camac (photo attached.) But I would also highly recommend their smaller Clio model with extended soundboard, which has 44 strings. When you get “good enough,” a journey to the Netherlands seems like a great idea!

Thanks everyone for a great thread! Wishing you the best of luck, Lily,
Balfour

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[Lily-White]

Hi Balfour,

What a delicious post, thank you!

This seems to be a lovely community. In my country people don’t play the harp a lot, and usually they cannot understand why I would like to play it.
So it feels wonderful to find people who share my passion!

Your post made me smile – and it also made my mouth water… Compliments for your choice of flower! 😉
And compliments for that BEAUTIFUL favourite pedal harp of yours! Finally a Camac in this thread…

Thank you for your support!

– Lily

[Lily-White]

Thank you @CHARLES-NIX, @GREGG BAILEY and @BALFOUR-KNIGHT! Your replies were a real eye opener for me. I have been looking at sheet music I would like to play later on, and I would need a pedal harp for that. That would be awesome!

I also realize I was rushing a little before, when it comes to buying my own harp. Now I will practice on my rental RAVENNA for a while and see where that takes me. MAYBE to the Netherlands…? 🙂

The only thing that worries me is how much love and care a harp needs, it’s like a pet. String changing, tuning, transport, humidifying, blisters… I’m used to the piano. But as you fall in love with harps – in a completely different way than with other instruments (my personal view) – I guess you do it with a lot of affection and respect. 🙂

[balfour-knight]

Hello Lily,

I love your post! Yes, I for one, DO have a lot of affection and respect for my two harps! My other harp is a Dusty FH36S in figured cherry, “Cherie,” another gorgeous instrument. One of her best features is her Camac levers.

I played the piano first, though, as a child at 5 years old. My father and I soon after that constructed a small 29-string harp without levers, so it would only play diatonically in C or A minor. I learned to tune F sharps on it so I could play in G, especially since the lowest and highest strings were G’s. I had to wait until college to actually be able to play a pedal harp, and I was thrilled! Then I completed a Master’s degree in Organ Performance, and harp was placed on “the back burner,” ha, ha! It took some years before I could afford my own pedal harp, and now I am on my third one, the Camac Atlantide Prestige. Just so you know, a harp does not have to be permanent, as you grow in what you prefer. You do what you need to do, in order to build up your tolerance and finger callusses, and to maintain your harp, or harps. Most of us do not just own ONE harp, ha, ha!

So glad you are now on the HC forums. It is a joy to correspond with you!

Harp Hugs,
Balfour (and Carol Lynn, my sweet wife!)

[Lily-White]

Hello Balfour,

Thank you for welcoming me to the forums! I’m afraid I can’t be of any help, I’m just asking questions… I hope I can give back some day!

What a wonderful story, building your first little harp with your dad… <3

I love it that you call your Dusty “Cherie”! I haven’t seen my Ravenna yet, but the owner sent a picture of her to me. She is brand new and all black (I’m dreaming of a white harp 😀 )
But when I saw her picture, I found her so beautiful, my first harp… And it just came to me: her name had to be “Mélanie”. In French. My mother tongue is Swedish and we pronounce and spell the name like the French. The name has ancient Greek origins and means “black”. Mademoiselle Mélanie…
I didn’t plan on giving her a name, and I certainly wasn’t going to tell anyone she has a name, and here I go… 🙂

Thank you Balfour!

– Lily

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