Loosening tuning pegs

[Hannah Rother]

Hello,

This is my first time making a post. I have a Salvi Daphne 47EX that is one year old, and I am having some trouble re-stringing my 5th octave B string.

I did not know that I should loosen the tuning peg when I restrung the B string, so I ended up rotating it tightly enough to see the screw lines on the left side of the harp (first image). My professor told me to loosen the peg two rotations before restringing, so I did as she said. However, when I tightened it again, it still didn’t look right (the peg wasn’t in line with the ones around it). I redid it a couple times, loosening the peg until I could push it back and forth through the hole gently, but when tightened the peg still looked as if too much of it was on the left side (it is only a slight difference, but none of my other strings are out of line), and the B is still flat.

I can see some wood dust accumulating around the peg (I brushed a good amount of it off before I took the last two pictures), so I am worried that if I continue trying to fix it, the wood will be scraped away and the peg will become too loose altogether. The second and third images are what it looks like now.

Any advice for what I should do next would be greatly appreciated! Thank you so much!

• This topic was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by Hannah Rother. Reason: Image didn't load

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[charles-nix]

First off, apologies for delays in responding. You may not know that first-time posts with photos often get automatically flagged as spam. (You can probably figure out why.) The forum admins just now unflagged your post.

On to your questions. There are _no_ screw threads on pedal harp tuning pins. They are tapered, with a roughened surface in the middle. They are tightened only as needed by a firm push into the hole while wiggling or turning slightly. Only tighten as much as needed, and generally it is done at the same time as tuning.

There is absolutely no reason ever to loosen a pin two turns to back it out (on a pedal harp). Some lever harp have threaded pins that require this, but no pedal harps, and no lever harps by any of the major pedal harp makers. In fact, unnecessarily turning a pin will wear out the hole over time, and the tapered pin will seat farther in, exactly as you describe. This is normal, and yours is not enough to matter.

What you must watch on the lower gut strings are three things: 1) Do not EVER get so many wraps on the pin that it jams against the neck. If you get close, loosen a couple of turns, grab the free end with pliers, and pull 1/2-3/4″ through the hole, then retune and trim off.

2) Aim to have a minimum of 2.5-3 wraps on the pin when finished.
3) Aim to have some string angle angling closer to the next as the string leaves the nut and goes around the tuning pin. About 10-15 deg, probably. IOW, the string at the pin is closer to the neck plane than where it goes over the nut. This angle, coupled with the string tension and tuning pin taper is what maintains tension on the pins when you tune.

It looks very much like the replacement is a nylon string instead of gut. They are not interchangable. They will sound different, and they will regulate differently. Pay for gut, especially in that lower range.

So, all your loosening and tightening is exactly why the pin protrudes too far. It can be shimmed if needed, (another post entirely) but it doesn’t really look that bad from what I can see in the photos.

You also say the 5B is still flat. So pull it up to pitch??? I’m not understanding why that was important to mention. And you do know that it tunes to Bb, right? And you know that you’ll be pulling that one up to pitch for about 2 weeks until it settles in.

Let us know what progress you make. I have a feeling there may be gaps in understanding still left unsaid.

Charles Nix

[balfour-knight]

Thanks for posting the above information, Charles. I still have NO idea why anyone ever came up with threaded tuning pins for harps. It just confuses harpists, and they hear someone say “loosen the pin 2 or 3 turns before you put on the new string,” and they have no idea why! Personally, I hate having to do this on my Dusty. I would much rather it had the regular tapered pins! Generations of harps had tapered pins, so that is the standard.

Have a great day!
Balfour

[Hannah Rother]

Mr. Nix,

Thank you so much for your advice! As I grow with my harp, I feel like a beginner at everything outside of playing. It is frustrating, but I am so grateful to you and everyone who helps walk me through my mistakes.

You are correct in noticing that the replacement was a nylon string. It was my only available one at the time, but my new gut string has come in the mail and I have just strung it on!

I was under the assumption that the tuning pin worked like a screw and became further embedded in the neck with every rotation, so I was worried that if I had to keep sharpening the 5B, the pin would protrude too far through the hole. I am happy to know now that that is not the case! And yes, I am tuning it to Bb.

When I was stringing the B on just now, I noticed that the pin was looser than normal in the beginning, likely from my earlier restringing attempts. I did not rotate the pin before replacing the string because I believe if necessary, I can just push the pin in deeper if it becomes a problem. Please let me know if I am incorrect in this assumption!

Thank you again for your help! I hope you are having a wonderful day!
Hannah Rother

• This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Hannah Rother.
• This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Hannah Rother.

[balfour-knight]

Hannah, I believe that you are right on track. I did not mean to go “off topic” to complain about threaded harp tuning pins! The standard tapered pins on my Camac Atlantide Prestige concert grand are WONDERFUL! I just wish Dusty Strings used those instead of the threaded ones. With the threaded ones, they DO act like a screw, and so you have to back them out before you put on the new string. It is very difficult to get this right, as the pin will be out too far, or not in far enough. With the usual tapered pin, you are correct, just pushing on it as you tune, or working it back and forth a tiny bit, will “drive” the tuning pin in a bit and tighten it.

Happy Harping, to Charles too!
Balfour

[charles-nix]

Yes, Hannah, Balfour is exactly right. To tighten a pin, hold the neck of your harp in left hand near pin needing tightening. Put tuning wrench with your right hand on the pin, press your hands together while wiggling slightly, until the pin will just hold tension with a bit of margin extra.

IF you get it too tight to turn, DO NOT force the turning. You can and will snap off the square head of the pin. If it’s jammed tight, tap gently on the small end of the pin with a hammer. Gently. Don’t miss. You can use a block of wood between if needed. But you will only very rarely get one jammed.

If you want to learn about your harp, purchase Carl Swanson’s book from Swanson Harps. And look up the blog and articles from Moss Harp Service. Both are excellent resources.

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