Home › Forums › Performing › Is there no honor in email agreements?
- This topic has 23 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 3 months ago by
Jerusha Amado.
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January 30, 2014 at 9:24 pm #62838
Jerusha Amado
ParticipantHi everyone,
I was asked to play a gig at a local art museum. All negotiation for price/date/time, etc. was done via email. Shortly after coming to an agreement on these items, I tried to contact the museum events coordinator via email in order to sign a contract, but there was no response, nor was there any response to repeat emails. She also did not return a phone message. The gig came and went, and I noticed that they hired an acoustic guitarist for the event. It’s possible they were able to hire him for less money. My impression of all of this is that our email agreement should have been honored; however, perhaps clients feel that they can back out before a written contract has been signed. At the very least I should have been given an explanation as to what was going on. What is your experience/opinion of a situation like this?January 30, 2014 at 9:40 pm #62839haromagik
ParticipantI think this is terrible! I am so sorry for you. I live in a very small town and have often accepted gigs, as have other musicians I know, via email, without any problem whatsoever. I definitely agree that they at the very least owe you an explanation, and an apology. Very bad form, in my opinion.
January 30, 2014 at 9:49 pm #62840Tacye
ParticipantThis raises an interesting philosophical point – If you believe email or verbal contracts should be binding, why ask for a signed contract? For clarity, obviously, with verbal agreements – but how do you ask without giving the client the impression that they, and you, are not already contracted?
January 30, 2014 at 9:52 pm #62841Jerusha Amado
ParticipantThanks, Ellen, for the sympathetic response! This is the first time I’ve had anything like this happen.
January 30, 2014 at 9:57 pm #62842Jerusha Amado
ParticipantHi Tayce,
My impression of email is that it’s somewhere between a verbal agreement and a signed written contract. It supposedly doesn’t carry the legal weight of the latter because emails are “mushy”–they can be easily falsified by knowledgeable techies. I’m no lawyer; this is just what I’ve heard via the grapevine. If I don’t know the client, then I let them know that I’ll be following up with a written contract. Email, even telephone calls, work for me with trusted clients.January 30, 2014 at 11:04 pm #62843Alison
ParticipantI always ask clients print to my form (they can choose to complete it by hand or type into before printing, in fact I get them started before I send it) and send me the printed hardcopy, so that I have a paper copy from them and – this way I save the effort of printing myself and I have something for the day and the address/directions !!
January 31, 2014 at 1:32 am #62844Sylvia
ParticipantMmmmm. Seems like I recall David Ice embroiled in an email controversy …a total mess.
Phone message … you don’t know if she got it, ignored it, or what.
I think I would have kept calling until I got her on the phone. That way, she would have had to actually tell me what the situation was.January 31, 2014 at 3:45 am #62845Jerusha Amado
ParticipantHi Sylvia,
I suspect that she got the phone message. I thought about continuing to try to reach her, but her repeated lack of response prompted me to lose all interest in performing at the venue. I don’t think that it’s ethical to agree to hire someone and then dump him/her when a better or cheaper alternative presents itself. I doubt that she would have appreciated it if I were treat her in such a fashion, e.g. back out of her gig to take one that paid more money.January 31, 2014 at 6:46 am #62846onita-sanders
ParticipantSorry to hear about what happen. Welcome to the world of a jobbing harpist. There are many things going on here. The first thing is you were dealing with a person who is in a position to hire and fire as they see fit. Nothing personal. Just business. She cares little about how she has deeply wounded a fellow human being who depended upon her good will and honorable intentions. You are probably correct in assuming that she got some one cheaper. Maybe they are a relative. The bottom line is she did not have the backbone to deal with it one on one. Maybe she booked this individual long ago and forgot about it and doubled booked.
The second thing is “closure”. It is the not knowing why they did this? Why did they not answer or even return my calls. It is the big WHY. What did I do wrong? You did nothing wrong. They did in how they handled the situation. I once was working a couple of nights a week at a very scale restaurant. Just loving the job. One evening the maître d and I happen to be in be cloak room and he said to me “what’s that thing on the floor”. It was my termination notice. He also did not have the backbone to hand it to me or even tell me. Instead I was suppose to find it on the floor.
Just as the late George Carlin says here are some “brain droppings. Try to make at least you second or third contact with an individual, a phone call. Now that you have had this experience, your next thought should be about having a written contract. I am finding that the IRS is requiring the signing of a W-9. If that has not happened, be suspicious. Finally, I have the rule of two. If after two “reach outs”, there is no return phone call, emails, or any type of response, I drop all means of communication.
Believe it or not they feel you are stalking them, even though all you want is clarification. It’s not about right or wrong, it is just business. The big picture is you can still play your instrument and live on to bring Joy to others, mainly because you have proven that you have reason above this and become a more thoughtful and considerate person. All though having the job and the money would have been much better.January 31, 2014 at 7:35 am #62847Elizabeth Volpé Bligh
ParticipantHello, Jerusha! I am sorry that this has happened to you. I had a similar thing with a school that had arranged for a year of Skype lessons with me. I had spent a lot of time emailing about times and dates, and finally, everything was all arranged. Then, when the first date came, and nobody was online, I phoned to ask where they were. They said one student had graduated, and the other student was out of town. Okay…so I dragged the harp to the computer the next week and the other student still wasn’t there. After a couple more phone calls and another email, I finally dragged it out of them that the students had decided to try another teacher, and they had lied about everything because they were embarrassed. I had taught several students there with great success, so this shocked me. There are people everywhere who think the grass is greener on the other side, even when it is just more grass. I had assumed that the email records formed a contract, but apparently not.
January 31, 2014 at 3:16 pm #62848kay-lister
MemberHi Jer,
I don’t totally obligate myself until I have a signed contract in hand with a 20% deposit. I will go over details with them by phone (no e-mail) and have everything spelled out clearly in the contract. I also will let them know when the contract is due back to me and if I don’t have it by that date, then I consider them not interested and I erase them off of my calendar.
I’m just SO sorry that you had to deal with this situation and it is CERTAINLY NO reflection on YOU. THEY are the ones who are unprofessional in this.
Kay
January 31, 2014 at 3:33 pm #62849jimmy-h
ParticipantAt least it wasn’t as drawn out and frustrating as what David Ice went through recently.
January 31, 2014 at 5:10 pm #62850justin-lo
ParticipantI feel so sorry that this happened to you.
My legal studies (note: still a student) tell me that email correspondences that amount to an agreement between two parties ,with an objectively identifiable intention to be legally bound, are no less a contract than one single formal document that actually says “Agreement”. Theoretically, that’s the case even with oral contracts. I’m not sure how American (common) law differs from English or Hong Kong law, but on something as fundamental as this, I guess the rules aren’t much different.
That said, there could still be complicated issues in evidence like you suggested, especially for oral contracts. Also it’d probably be not worth the time, money and effort to actually sue the breaching party for a gig payment. That’s probably why people act so irresponsibly – they bet you’re not going to spend the time and money chasing after them so they could get away with it.
Hope we’ll all have more responsible (at least, legally) clients!
January 31, 2014 at 7:18 pm #62851Jerusha Amado
ParticipantHi Onita,
<> That is just awful.Not having an explanation is somewhat disturbing, but what you said here is so insightful: <> I even felt that my two emails and one phone message were too much. That was the limit of what I was willing to do.
January 31, 2014 at 7:25 pm #62852Jerusha Amado
ParticipantHi Elizabeth (miss you!)
It’s particularly sad that you had worked for the school in the past. And the fact that the folks who hired you were too embarrassed to tell you and therefore lied about the true reason is eye opening. I just wonder if as a society we’re not willing to deal with a problem head on.
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