Debussy Danses question

[Victoria Herpsbun]

Hi everyone, so I have a few questions about thr dances and would love to see everyone’s opinion.

In figure 1 of the 1st dance, en animant peu a peu. Where do we stop accelerating and what is the end tempo that he wants? I have listened to different recordings and some accelerates a lot while others just barely. Any consensus or insight on what Debussy actually wanted here?

What tempo is the 2nd dance usually played at? It is written 152 but that seems way too fast to be comfortable.

Thank you in advance

[carl-swanson]

Intriguing question! In fact, Debussy doesn’t tell you clearly where the tempo stabilizes. 8 measures before rehearsal 1, he says “sans lenteur” which basically says “speed up a little.” Then at rehearsal 1 (en animant peu à peu) he says little by little, get faster. I think the tempo stabilizes 4 measures after rehearsal 1, where the octave melody starts. So you need to decide what your tempo will be starting at 4 after rehearsal 1 and use the 4 measures before it to get to that tempo. The tempo you start at 4 after rehearsal 1 should be more or less consistent until the Retenu, 2 measures before rehearsal 2.

[Victoria Herpsbun]

Thank you, Carl. So question is, what is the end tempo he wants for those measures (4 after 1 until 2 before 2)? Because I have heard some pretty large variation on the tempo.

If we only have 4 measures to speed up little by little, I imagine it should not be too fast.

[carl-swanson]

I think the reason you are hearing so many different tempos from different harpists is because he didn’t specify what that tempo should be. You need to decide what sounds best to you for those measures, and then figure out how you are going to get to that tempo.

[Victoria Herpsbun]

Just out of curiosity, what would be your choice of tempo? If the initial is 120. Thanks

[carl-swanson]

Whatever piece I am playing, I let the piece find it’s own tempo. Tempo is very dependent on your approach to the music, how you perceive it. So what sounds fine for one harpist may sound off for another. I never really pay much attention to metronome markings or how other harpists play a piece. I also usually take tempos that are at the slower end of what will work, simply because I can do more with the music at a slower tempo. I play for example Posse’s Concert Etude no. 7, and I’ve heard several recordings of it that are faster than what I play. But my view of that piece is that it is a lovely, melodic, and lyrical piece, and it looses something by playing it too fast. So you need to just learn the piece, think about how you want to interpret it, and then let that approach find the tempo.

[Victoria Herpsbun]

Thank you for your insight. It’s tricky though if the conductor wants a faster tempo because tthey have heard others playing it that way. I’m in the opinion that the soloist should determine the tempo most comfortable for them but sometimes it doesn’t work that way.

[balfour-knight]

I agree with Carl. Speed does not always make the best music! When you become professional enough, you can literally “set your own tempo.” When I was younger, I often had to defend how I wanted to play something, and sometimes I didn’t have a leg to stand on. Age, education, fame, and proficiency brought more respect from other musicians and conductors. One good thing about modern times is that you can usually find a good example on YouTube of how you want to play something.

I wish you all the best in this, Victoria!
Balfour

[Victoria Herpsbun]

Thank you Balfour 🙂

[Saul Davis Zlatkovski]

If you are the soloist, you should be the one establishing the tempo, you need to tell the conductor just what you need. En animant means, not so much animated, as it does “lit from within,” according to an expert I consulted. What Debussy indicated is a flexible tempo that rises and falls, but what Renie decided should be more conventional accelerando or immediate changes of tempo. Traditionally, harpists have been following her indications, though they sometimes make it more difficult. I have been making my own edition from the original and have found easier pedalings and fingerings as a result. Yes, 152 is extremely fast, and you have to remember that what composers here in their head is an ideal that omits the effort required to produce the notes. If I remember correctly, Salzedo’s tempo choice was either 104 or 120 for the second dance, I’d have to go look at it.

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