Debussy Danses New Pedalling!

[Saul Davis Zlatkovski]

I am so excited, I couldn’t wait to post this and see what you think. I would certainly hope to publish it soon, but I might as well get some opinions. I have been working on the Danses using the original part for chromatic harp. I realized that Salzedo did his editing from Renie’s editions, not the original, and Renie made many changes of many kinds. In the pedal-scramble Animez, by working fresh and comparing Renie, Salzedo and Lawrence editings, I have found a simpler, and hopefully much easier way to play this passage. This is the second Animez in the Danse Profane, and note that it is Animez not Anime, which suggest that it may be played accelerando, not suddenly faster.

Use the harp and piano part if you have it for reference. You are coming from the chords previous with this pedal setting: Dsharp, Csharp, Bflat, Enatural, Fsharp, Gnatural, Anatural. On

[carl-swanson]

It must be osmosis or some such process, but I just finished writing an article which will be published in the Journal of the American Harp Society on exactly those 6 measures. It turns out that Renie made at least three versions of that passage, and when I was studying with Pierre Jamet, he had his own way of doing that passage. His is by far the best one that I have seen, but the others are interesting too. The article will publish all three of Renie’s versions of these six bars, and also the Jamet Version. Just by chance, Catherine Michel called me the other night and while we were chatting I asked her if she knew where Jamet got his version of that passage. She said that she always assumed that it came from Renie, but I said I didn’t think so, because Geraldine Ruegg had given me the two alternate versions that Renie had done, and if Renie had done the Jamet version too, I think she would have had it. Anyway, I’m not sure when the article will be published, but it should be interesting.

[carl-swanson]

Saul- I just carefully read your explanation. The problem I have with it is the same problem that I have with all three of Renie’s versions. At the speed that passage goes, if there are two pedals in one foot on one beat(one on the beginning of the beat and the other on the ‘and’), then it’s just too tricky to be practical. It’s too prone to a pedal mistake.

What I like about the Jamet version(wherever he got it) is that there is never more than one pedal per beat for each foot. In addition all of the pedal changes fore both feet are pedals that are right next to each other(i.e., G and A in the right foot, and B and C in the left). That is the only reasonable way to perform this with minimal chances of messing up. I’ve used his version of the Danses in performance numerous times and have always nailed that passage.

[unknown-user]

Thanks for this info, Saul. I’ve been working on this piece and am excited to go over this bit by bit. :o)

[frances-duffy]

I can’t wait to try Jamet’s version!

[Saul Davis Zlatkovski]

Well, that would depend on your choice of tempo and how you overall interpret Debussy’s tempo markings, which are unrealistic. To do it any differently would mean changing or omitting notes, I am certain. I will find out how workable it is as I work up the tempo. I suggest you include with your article Salzedo’s solution as well, which was independently arrived at by another composer.

[Saul Davis Zlatkovski]

If you write mine out, you’ll see that the precise location of the pedal changes are often adjustable by a sixteenth or more, so there is always the possiblity of three sixteenths between changes, giving more time. However, a harpist needs to be able to pedal this fast, no matter what. It just takes some work and good shoes. There are many pieces that require much more difficult pedalling, hard as this is.

[carl-swanson]

Jamet’s solution omits two notes, and at full tempo, even knowning that you are listening to his version, you can’t hear these omissions. Salzedo’s version leaves out the entire left hand, and then divides the right hand 16th notes between the two hands and drastically alters the harmony!!!

[Saul Davis Zlatkovski]

But it works beautifully and is standard for many many harpists!!!!!

My version leaves all the notes intact.

[carl-swanson]

Saul, you’re unbelievable! You jump all over the Jamet version for leaving out two notes(really one, because it’s the same one when the pattern repeats an octave lower), and then praise a version that is so far out in left field as to not bear the faintest resemblance to the original version. And why? Because it was written by Salzedo! When I complain about the cult-like mentality that I have observed so often over the years, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT!!!

[Saul Davis Zlatkovski]

No it is not.

[Saul Davis Zlatkovski]

And if it were, so what? You can’t do anything about it, so move on.

[David Ice]

Two true stories, a bit off topic but yet still on-topic.

[Saul Davis Zlatkovski]

That is a wonderful insight into the Lord’s Prayer, mass of treacle that it is. Yes, Salzedo was willing to rewrite and recompose pieces to make them sound better on the harp, to make the harp speak. I don’t think it was wrong, not when you are as fine of a musical mind as he was. Whether we keep them or not is our choice. I agree that it is necessary to rethink a piece if you are translating it into a new medium, just as translations can rarely be literal and be effective. Whether it calls attention to itself or seems merely to be part of the whole is a measure of the artfulness of the transcription. Leopold Stokowski was also the master of this, and if you listen to his orchestration of Soiree d’un Grenade, you’ll hear measures he added for the harp that are pure magic. I am working from the original of the Danses to find my own path into and from them. I have made some tiny changes here and there to improve the chord voicing or progression, but mainly, I am removing the layers of Renie and Salzedo, which can unfortunately obscure the message of the original. One really must study both original and transcription to perform a transcription well. One must understand the changes made and why, not play them blindly.

[Saul Davis Zlatkovski]

And to answer Carl, the “leap” from Jamet to Salzedo was simply a reflection of my impatient mind. I am striving to play the original. If it is to be changed at all, then I would rather go all the way to Salzedo’s brilliant solution which sounds clearly, moves well, and is playable in the tempo Debussy seemed to want. And we know he liked speed. One thing I do not agree with is changing any notes of the slide into the last page. It must be in theis it Lydian-mode to set up the chords to follow and get the harp ringing in the mode.

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