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Sarah Mullen.
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February 28, 2011 at 4:37 pm #106520
Saul Davis Zlatkovski
ParticipantHarp Dreams is available from Netflix. I watched it last night and was quite impressed by the production, and was very much inspired by the contestant’s love of the harp.
As far as competitions go, it also reminded me of some reasons why there have been fewer Salzedo School winners in the past. The teaching method of Lawrence and Chalifoux, as I experienced it, was very much by rote, old school, and was a long learning process. We learned interpretations, particularly those of Salzedo, in order to learn how to work with the sound of the harp, how dynamics and rhythm come across to the audience, and how to project the musical concepts. We were also taught what you might call Official or Orthodox interpretations of Salzedo’s music from his pupils. That made us vital links in an oral tradition, much as Chopin’s pupils were, and Liszt’s, and so on. We are not likely to make a lot of personal alterations in his scores. We also learned a certain type of repertoire, and not much of the Romantic style of music, with some exceptions.
That meant we were much less likely to enter a competition unless the repertoire was sufficiently compatible with our interests. It might mean that we might have seemed less individualistic in our interpretations, depending on the person, which might well have been less favored by judges. That depends on the student, of course, as well as the teacher. As I said, we were in a long process. Once we had studied enough, and were deemed to understand the tonal resources of the harp, we were then able to work on our own much more. There is some rigidity in this approach, but great results, I think. As a result, depending on when we began study, we reached the polished stage later than other students might.
I’m not saying this to stir up any controversy again, but just pointing out that this approach is less well served by most competitions, at least until recently, and better served by those where the harpist is competing with all players, not only other harpists.
It does seem that competitions do serve a certain type of personality, which is fine, but there should be alternative paths for other personalities as well. Competing does not seem very suitable for a sensitive, artistic performer, though some have come through it fine.
February 28, 2011 at 7:43 pm #106521kathy-chanik
ParticipantSaul, that’s a very insightful analysis. I studied with one of The Wives also (Marjorie Call in LA, same as David Ice). Not quite as much “open a hole in your head and pour the info in”, but not too far off either, especially regards technique. I think there was a bit of wife rivalry there too, she used to say that Lucille was very stiff.
March 1, 2011 at 3:57 am #106522carl-swanson
ParticipantSaul- I think I would go farther than you and say that there are very few Americans who take prizes at international competitions. It’s not just the Salzedo players. If you look at the grand prize winners(1st, 2nd, and 3rd prizes) at most competitions, the winners come from a school of pedagogy that places high emphasis on the rigorous use of advanced etudes and exercises to build technique). Most American harpists don’t get that training, and it shows in competitions.
You mention several times how Salzedo players study for a very long time. Everybody studies for a very long time. The big question is: What is the result at the end of it?
Competitions are one way of jump starting a career. This is true on all instruments and for singers as well. But winning a competition is no guarantee of a career. It’s just another stepping stone in the process. Not everybody is cut out to play and win competitions. But not everybody is up to the needs of a top professional career. I go to a lot of concerts every winter and hear lots of international artists. I’m always dumbfounded by the extraordinarily high level of their performances, and can only imagine what it takes for them to constantly perform at that level. They must all be chained to their careers, and must make enormous personal sacrifices to have such careers. So while competitions may be a brutal way of proving oneself, it may be the best indicator of who, personality-wise and musically, is most fit for a major career.
March 1, 2011 at 7:48 pm #106523ParticipantThere is certainly the kind of person who loves to practice, all day long, and wants nothing else. They are well suited to competition. I don’t think it makes them an interesting player, necessarily, but capable. You have said that before about etudes, and I don’t see any connection. If there is, it is unfortunate, for we are sorely lacking in fine etudes for harp. If the benefit is patience and exactitude, and finely detailed corrections, surely that can be accomplished with other work. The same for strength and control. There are attitude differences, too, between European and American culture. European training is much more vocational, where
March 2, 2011 at 1:31 am #106524unknown-user
ParticipantJust checked:
Of all the grand prize winners available online, (of the USIHC and Israel – couldn’t find detailed enough info on others) I tallied their countries of study (which often differed from country of origen). The results are distrubuted as follows:
USA 34.2%
France 23.7%
Netherlands/Russia: 10.5%
Japan: 7.9%
Italy/Korea: 5.3%
China: 2.6%
The sample size was 38 grand prizes (# of prize winners slightly lower) since 1989. Perhaps we should reevaluate whether or not American trained harpists are not doing well in competitions… Interestingly, there were two years
March 2, 2011 at 2:24 am #106525ParticipantSam- Very interesting statistics. Thank you. In the first 20 years of the Israel competition there were a lot of Americans who took grand prizes, especially first prize. In all likelihood the Japanese winners in your statistics studied in France, and perhaps the Chinese too.
March 2, 2011 at 12:39 pm #106526ParticipantI thought about that but couldn’t find information that they studied any where else besides Japan. I hadn’t checked the only chinese contestant, Jessica Zhou, because I saw that it wouldn’t affect the statistics much. In fact, it further scews them, because she studied in the US. Another point is that most of the harpists of foreign
March 2, 2011 at 12:43 pm #106527ParticipantOnly one of the 3 Japanese harpists had any indication that they studied outside of Japan. She listed 3 Japanese teachers and 1 French. The others seem to have studied only in Japan.
~Sam
March 2, 2011 at 1:44 pm #106528deb-l
Participantdon’t mean to interrupt the conversation, but wanted to thank Saul for mentioning this was on Netflix, I watched it yesterday and will again today.
March 2, 2011 at 8:25 pm #106529ParticipantThank you, Sam, for that excellent and most encouraging research! Brilliant. I’m sure Carl is more of the mind, as am I, of the days when Israel was the only contest worth mentioning, not that long ago. Indiana has changed the picture. Would that it had a broader range of repertoire, though. I hope they never ask for another opera fantasy again.
The thing about competitions is that it serves only certain types of performers, and does not work well for artistic people, broad-minded people of many interests, and they are usually the most interesting performers. I would not draw any conclusions about one’s self from observing these participants. You could observe that the ones who practiced the most did not necessarily advance. I have never been so single-minded, or practice-driven, and I have done all right, if I say so myself. It takes a lot of culture to be an interesting musician, not a lot of practicing. The Netherlands competition is a new model that should be more accomodating to more kinds of people.
What it takes to be a fine professional is to have high standards and meet them, however one does it. It may be over a longer period of study, or by bringing more to the table, but it does not take eight hours a day of practicing. Five hours is enough. My teacher never wanted anyone to practice more than that for fear of damage and overworking, except when under particular pressure. Five is a lot! And after enough time of five hours, you can get the same amount done in four, and even three. The one big obstacle here is that schools don’t allow a high school student to practice three or more hours a day, and that’s a problem. That means finding a special school or some other arrangement for a talented kid. We should get more credit than that.
March 2, 2011 at 8:28 pm #106530ParticipantThere’s another set of factors, Sam, if you were to pursue studying this further. In countries like Russia, to even be in a music school is a result of competitive auditioning and placement, and such a country may be, despite its size, ready to field far fewer contestants than the U.S., where it is all free market. The pressure is then greater on the few competitors they provide, but they are also more schooled and prepared. This may also be true in France and some other European countries with more regimented education systems.
March 18, 2011 at 12:13 pm #106531Elisa Netzer
ParticipantHi! I live in Switzerland and I want to buy the dvd of Harp Dreams, do you know if an ameican dvd works also in Europe? We had problems with the old VHS, they were different in the two continents.
thank you for your help
March 19, 2011 at 12:16 am #106532Sarah Mullen
ParticipantSaul, I’ve never competed, and one of the reasons is certainly personality.
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