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Jamet’s solution omits two notes, and at full tempo, even knowning that you are listening to his version, you can’t hear these omissions. Salzedo’s version leaves out the entire left hand, and then divides the right hand 16th notes between the two hands and drastically alters the harmony!!!
Saul- I just carefully read your explanation. The problem I have with it is the same problem that I have with all three of Renie’s versions. At the speed that passage goes, if there are two pedals in one foot on one beat(one on the beginning of the beat and the other on the ‘and’), then it’s just too tricky to be practical. It’s too prone to a pedal mistake.
What I like about the Jamet version(wherever he got it) is that there is never more than one pedal per beat for each foot. In addition all of the pedal changes fore both feet are pedals that are right next to each other(i.e., G and A in the right foot, and B and C in the left). That is the only reasonable way to perform this with minimal chances of messing up. I’ve used his version of the Danses in performance numerous times and have always nailed that passage.
Saul- I just carefully read your explanation. The problem I have with it is the same problem that I have with all three of Renie’s versions. At the speed that passage goes, if there are two pedals in one foot on one beat(one on the beginning of the beat and the other on the ‘and’), then it’s just too tricky to be practical. It’s too prone to a pedal mistake.
What I like about the Jamet version(wherever he got it) is that there is never more than one pedal per beat for each foot. In addition all of the pedal changes fore both feet are pedals that are right next to each other(i.e., G and A in the right foot, and B and C in the left). That is the only reasonable way to perform this with minimal chances of messing up. I’ve used his version of the Danses in performance numerous times and have always nailed that passage.
Saul- I just carefully read your explanation. The problem I have with it is the same problem that I have with all three of Renie’s versions. At the speed that passage goes, if there are two pedals in one foot on one beat(one on the beginning of the beat and the other on the ‘and’), then it’s just too tricky to be practical. It’s too prone to a pedal mistake.
What I like about the Jamet version(wherever he got it) is that there is never more than one pedal per beat for each foot. In addition all of the pedal changes fore both feet are pedals that are right next to each other(i.e., G and A in the right foot, and B and C in the left). That is the only reasonable way to perform this with minimal chances of messing up. I’ve used his version of the Danses in performance numerous times and have always nailed that passage.
It must be osmosis or some such process, but I just finished writing an article which will be published in the Journal of the American Harp Society on exactly those 6 measures. It turns out that Renie made at least three versions of that passage, and when I was studying with Pierre Jamet, he had his own way of doing that passage. His is by far the best one that I have seen, but the others are interesting too. The article will publish all three of Renie’s versions of these six bars, and also the Jamet Version. Just by chance, Catherine Michel called me the other night and while we were chatting I asked her if she knew where Jamet got his version of that passage. She said that she always assumed that it came from Renie, but I said I didn’t think so, because Geraldine Ruegg had given me the two alternate versions that Renie had done, and if Renie had done the Jamet version too, I think she would have had it. Anyway, I’m not sure when the article will be published, but it should be interesting.
It must be osmosis or some such process, but I just finished writing an article which will be published in the Journal of the American Harp Society on exactly those 6 measures. It turns out that Renie made at least three versions of that passage, and when I was studying with Pierre Jamet, he had his own way of doing that passage. His is by far the best one that I have seen, but the others are interesting too. The article will publish all three of Renie’s versions of these six bars, and also the Jamet Version. Just by chance, Catherine Michel called me the other night and while we were chatting I asked her if she knew where Jamet got his version of that passage. She said that she always assumed that it came from Renie, but I said I didn’t think so, because Geraldine Ruegg had given me the two alternate versions that Renie had done, and if Renie had done the Jamet version too, I think she would have had it. Anyway, I’m not sure when the article will be published, but it should be interesting.
It must be osmosis or some such process, but I just finished writing an article which will be published in the Journal of the American Harp Society on exactly those 6 measures. It turns out that Renie made at least three versions of that passage, and when I was studying with Pierre Jamet, he had his own way of doing that passage. His is by far the best one that I have seen, but the others are interesting too. The article will publish all three of Renie’s versions of these six bars, and also the Jamet Version. Just by chance, Catherine Michel called me the other night and while we were chatting I asked her if she knew where Jamet got his version of that passage. She said that she always assumed that it came from Renie, but I said I didn’t think so, because Geraldine Ruegg had given me the two alternate versions that Renie had done, and if Renie had done the Jamet version too, I think she would have had it. Anyway, I’m not sure when the article will be published, but it should be interesting.
Muscle memory comes from repeating patterns. The most effective way of doing this is with exercises(scales, arpeggios, LaRiviere, etc.) and etudes. Exercises get boring fast, and I much prefer etudes. A good etude picks a pattern and works it to death. This is how you develope an arsenal of muscle memory patterns(octaves, triads,thirds, fourths, fifths, etc.) that are useable in helpng you to learn music. Use a set of etudes like the Bochsa op. 318(40 easy etudes) and play pieces that are compatible with the etudes you are learning.
When I teach a student, etudes and exercises take up about 1/3 to 1/2 of the lesson material, depending on other factors. Sometimes the student will go several weeks with no etude if the piece they are working on is a good substitute, such as a Bach transcription, or say Hasselman’s La Source(which by the way is subtitled ‘Etude.’). Try to use etudes as the main source of the technical material you work on. Carefully pick pieces that repeat a pattern(like La Source) and functions as an etude. Most pieces at all levels don’t repeat any pattern enough to form muscle memory for that pattern, and so pieces are not the best place to develope technique.
Placing one note at a time is what virtually all beginner students do, because as beginners they have no muscle memory for the hand position for tirads, 4 note chords, octaves, scales, and virtually all intervals,(2nds, 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, etc.). So when a beginner places one note at a time, he is really just hunting for the next note. But in sequencial placing, the player knows exactly where the next note is and is not hunting at all. The advanced player can form, in the air off the strings, any interval he wants, or any chord position(root, 1st and 2nd inversion, V7 in all its inversions, etc.). So when he places at the last second, or places in sequence, his fingers go exactly to where they need to be with no correction and no mistake. In order to get to that level of playing though, the student has to start by placing groups of 2,3,or 4 notes in blocks, making sure that when the fingers go on the strings(n blocks) no correction is needed, such as a finger landing on a wrong string, or a finger going so far through the plane of the strings that the string is almost down to the first knuckle, requiring the harpist to readjust the finger position before playing. Only when the student can consistantly place with complete accuracy in blocks can he/she move on to placing in sequence.
Tacye-Making a decision at a much lower level on much younger students as to what sort of harp education they should get is as bad as assuming that all harp students are going to be great soloists. It pushes them into an area of playing that they may or may not ultimately want to be involved.
I think that the only thing we can do as teachers is make sure that each student has a solid technical and theoretical foundation. That means they can get around the instrument easily, and that they can read music, and understand the basics of harmony well. That way, whatever they ultimately do(play weddings, sing and accompany themselves, play jazz, classical, or whatever) they are not hindered by inadequate training. Particularly in the Pop and jazz fields, your arrangements and improvisations can only be as good as your technique allows. As the student advances, the teacher should look for, and be open to, preferences in areas other than strictly classical repertoire. If the student wants to do something else, like pop arrangements, the teacher should be willing and able to teach those or to help the student find a teacher in that field.
Once the technique of placing in sequence is learned, you almost never, perhaps never, place in blocks. Even if the string you’re placing on is not vibrating, placing in sequence will frequently reduce or eliminate the chance of a buzz, if the string next to the one you are placing on is vibrating for example. Because my fingers are so thick, I have to frequently slightly alter my hand position to get a finger on a string without buzzing. The point is, the more advanced a player you are, the less your fingers are anchored to the strings. For someone just learning this technique of placing in sequence, it feels treacherous and accident prone. But it’s just a matter of getting used to it.
Vince- If you have a teacher in whom you have total confidence, then start by doing everything she says, without arguing. That’s how you will make the most progress. I would suggest also that you ask her for a written ‘report card’, an assessment if you will of how you are doing. I do this with my students about once a year, and it’s an opportunity to get away from the minute details of week to week lessons and look at the big picture. Here’s the type of thing I mean. This is for a fictional student I’ll call Dave.
Dave puts in serious practice time and comes prepared to his lessons. He knows the notes and rhythms of each piece he has prepared. His technique has steadily improved over the past year, and most of the technical problems he was dealing with over the past year are well on their way to resolution.
Dave needs to improve his practice techniques. The same trouble spots keep showing up week after week, and Dave doesn’t isolate these and fix them early in the learning process. The result is that he has learned these spots wrong, making it twice as difficult to fix them. He has to unlearn the mistake and replace it with the correct way of playing the spot.
Dave tends to work on too much material during the week. It would be better if he worked on less material, but brought it to the lesson much closer to performance level. Dave needs to think of each lesson as a performance and get as close to that level as possible in the shortest amount of time.
Dave needs to pay much closer attention to fingering. He can be very haphazard about working out or following written fingerings, and the result is that they cause him problems as the piece gets closer to final tempo. In sumation, I would say that Dave needs to be much more particular about getting all of the details right as early in the learning process as possible so that he doesn’t have to ‘unlearn’ these problems later on.
A report card along those lines gives the student a view on what the teacher sees over the course of several months or a year, and is a view of which the student is completely unaware. I would also like the student to issue a report card on the teacher so that the teacher can see the teaching process from the student’s standpoint. I think they would both benefit from a candid(but diplomatic!) assessment of the other.
I frequently put great emphasis in the lesson on placing correctly, and tell the student to practice placing(in blocks). I tell them that, if they can place correctly, then it’s a snap to play correctly. Placing correctly, meaning being able to place, in blocks, without any correction or adjustment after the fingers have gone on the strings, is the first step in real advancement on the instrument. I tell the student, when trying to learn a problem area, to place, but don’t play, the notes in question. That puts all of the emphasis on getting the fingers positioned correctly on the strings. If they were to play the same difficult spot, they would more or less ignore the fact that the placing in that spot had problems. Once they can place the difficult spot in blocks with no problems, then they can start practicing playing the spot. The last step is to then place and play that spot, placing sequentially.
