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I love that piece and use it on recitals all the time. The audience just LOVES it! They also love Lolita the Danser of Tournier.
Niall- Make sure you count the beats very VERY carefully! This piece does not want to stay in 5/8. Particularly the minor section in the middle. I can’t tell you how many times when I was learning it I practiced a page hard one night, then came back the following night only to realize that I had added a beat to each measure!
How interesting David. But I still think that Debussy, when Renie made the transcription, could easily have asked for glissando’s there and he didn’t. Also, in all of the years that Renie and Pierre Jamet-both of whom worked directly with Debussy on this piece- taught the Danses, neither of them ever mentioned glissandi as an option. So in that context I’m very, VERY suspicious of Salzedo attributing that remark to Debussy. Frankly, I don’t believe it. I think Salzedo made it up to justify his arrangement and to get Marjorie off his back.
How interesting David. But I still think that Debussy, when Renie made the transcription, could easily have asked for glissando’s there and he didn’t. Also, in all of the years that Renie and Pierre Jamet-both of whom worked directly with Debussy on this piece- taught the Danses, neither of them ever mentioned glissandi as an option. So in that context I’m very, VERY suspicious of Salzedo attributing that remark to Debussy. Frankly, I don’t believe it. I think Salzedo made it up to justify his arrangement and to get Marjorie off his back.
How interesting David. But I still think that Debussy, when Renie made the transcription, could easily have asked for glissando’s there and he didn’t. Also, in all of the years that Renie and Pierre Jamet-both of whom worked directly with Debussy on this piece- taught the Danses, neither of them ever mentioned glissandi as an option. So in that context I’m very, VERY suspicious of Salzedo attributing that remark to Debussy. Frankly, I don’t believe it. I think Salzedo made it up to justify his arrangement and to get Marjorie off his back.
I think to teach any piece, you have to know it well enough to know how the notes feel under the fingers. That means playing it through several times to figure out where the hard spots are, where the fingerings are going to be tricky, what the musical demands are, etc. If there is a recording of the piece, listening to it will help to, but is no substitute for sitting and playing through the piece yourself.
Pierre Jamet told me that anytime he judged a competition, he always learned the music well enough to understand its difficulties and form. It was no where’s near performance level, but he knew it well enough to clearly understand the piece. I think that a good teacher needs to do the same thing.
Debussy was one of the most effective writers for harp that we ever had. Trust me, he knew the difference between glissandi and fingered arpeggios. In addition, the transcription for pedal harp made by Renie had to have been seen by Debussy. In fact, Renie gave a performance of the Danses in 1910 and I have no doubt that Debussy was present. If, when Renie made the arrangement for pedal harp, the issue of the arpeggios on the last page even came up, which I sincerely doubt, the decision was made to use fingered arpeggios. The reason is obvious. They sound so much better than glissandi. Glissandi at the end of this gorgeous piece make it suddently sound like a 1950’s cigarette commercial.
Debussy was one of the most effective writers for harp that we ever had. Trust me, he knew the difference between glissandi and fingered arpeggios. In addition, the transcription for pedal harp made by Renie had to have been seen by Debussy. In fact, Renie gave a performance of the Danses in 1910 and I have no doubt that Debussy was present. If, when Renie made the arrangement for pedal harp, the issue of the arpeggios on the last page even came up, which I sincerely doubt, the decision was made to use fingered arpeggios. The reason is obvious. They sound so much better than glissandi. Glissandi at the end of this gorgeous piece make it suddently sound like a 1950’s cigarette commercial.
Debussy was one of the most effective writers for harp that we ever had. Trust me, he knew the difference between glissandi and fingered arpeggios. In addition, the transcription for pedal harp made by Renie had to have been seen by Debussy. In fact, Renie gave a performance of the Danses in 1910 and I have no doubt that Debussy was present. If, when Renie made the arrangement for pedal harp, the issue of the arpeggios on the last page even came up, which I sincerely doubt, the decision was made to use fingered arpeggios. The reason is obvious. They sound so much better than glissandi. Glissandi at the end of this gorgeous piece make it suddently sound like a 1950’s cigarette commercial.
Salzedo’s career is what it is. When he taught his students his versions of many pieces in the repertoire, like the Mozart Concerto to site one example, he never told them that they were not playing the original, or anything like it.
One of his students at Curtis from the ’40’s, who then got a major orchestra position, went on a Fulbright to France about 8 years after graduating from Curtis. There she studied with Lily Laskine, who she adored. At one point Laskine suggested they work on the Mozart, so this harpist brought her Salzedo version, which she had already learned with Salzedo, to the next lesson. “That’s not the Mozart,” Laskine told her, and they then proceeded to work from the original score. In writing home to a friend about this episode, the harpist ended her account by saying, “the little man has a lot to answer for.”
Salzedo’s version of the Danses, including the glissandos on the last page, are just another example a domineering narcissistic ‘leader’ playing fast and loose with the music.
Salzedo’s career is what it is. When he taught his students his versions of many pieces in the repertoire, like the Mozart Concerto to site one example, he never told them that they were not playing the original, or anything like it.
One of his students at Curtis from the ’40’s, who then got a major orchestra position, went on a Fulbright to France about 8 years after graduating from Curtis. There she studied with Lily Laskine, who she adored. At one point Laskine suggested they work on the Mozart, so this harpist brought her Salzedo version, which she had already learned with Salzedo, to the next lesson. “That’s not the Mozart,” Laskine told her, and they then proceeded to work from the original score. In writing home to a friend about this episode, the harpist ended her account by saying, “the little man has a lot to answer for.”
Salzedo’s version of the Danses, including the glissandos on the last page, are just another example a domineering narcissistic ‘leader’ playing fast and loose with the music.
Salzedo’s career is what it is. When he taught his students his versions of many pieces in the repertoire, like the Mozart Concerto to site one example, he never told them that they were not playing the original, or anything like it.
One of his students at Curtis from the ’40’s, who then got a major orchestra position, went on a Fulbright to France about 8 years after graduating from Curtis. There she studied with Lily Laskine, who she adored. At one point Laskine suggested they work on the Mozart, so this harpist brought her Salzedo version, which she had already learned with Salzedo, to the next lesson. “That’s not the Mozart,” Laskine told her, and they then proceeded to work from the original score. In writing home to a friend about this episode, the harpist ended her account by saying, “the little man has a lot to answer for.”
Salzedo’s version of the Danses, including the glissandos on the last page, are just another example a domineering narcissistic ‘leader’ playing fast and loose with the music.
The accompaniment is there ONLY for the first two measures, not for measures three and four of that passage. So when the orchestra stops playing, there is no longer a diminished chord.
What’s truly bizarre is that in all of the other solutions I have found- and I’ve found 5 so far-each solution deals with the real problem, which is the pedals. Salzedo is the only one who simplifies the notes, irrespective of necessity in pedaling. In other words, he apparently felt that the notes were hard as well as the pedals. I’ve never felt the notes, meaning the strings you have to hit, were difficult in this passage, and I don’t think anyone else does either. It’s exclusively the pedals that cause nightmares. At least Jamet’s solution, which may have been his or may have been Renie’s, sounds like the original, which is the goal of any simplification. Salzedo’s does not.
And by the way, two different Salzedo harpists sent me copies of what they do in that passage, and they’re both the same. So I think I’m using the version that Salzedo forced on his students.
The accompaniment is there ONLY for the first two measures, not for measures three and four of that passage. So when the orchestra stops playing, there is no longer a diminished chord.
What’s truly bizarre is that in all of the other solutions I have found- and I’ve found 5 so far-each solution deals with the real problem, which is the pedals. Salzedo is the only one who simplifies the notes, irrespective of necessity in pedaling. In other words, he apparently felt that the notes were hard as well as the pedals. I’ve never felt the notes, meaning the strings you have to hit, were difficult in this passage, and I don’t think anyone else does either. It’s exclusively the pedals that cause nightmares. At least Jamet’s solution, which may have been his or may have been Renie’s, sounds like the original, which is the goal of any simplification. Salzedo’s does not.
And by the way, two different Salzedo harpists sent me copies of what they do in that passage, and they’re both the same. So I think I’m using the version that Salzedo forced on his students.
